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How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? #652648 04/22/21 06:00 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia berntd OP Apprentice
OP berntd Apprentice Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia	Hello everyone, It may not be 100% correct terminology but it is sometimes needed when a song finishes the verse and then the chorus starts. In the picture, bar 22 there are 3 notes that are the lead into the chorus. They are shown as accentuated. However, there has to be a break just before that and then those notes are played as an intro to the chorus but slowly. How can I achieve this? Currently BIAB is just bashing out the exact tempo and that ruins that song. Shots there do not work on their own as they are still bashing out the exact tempo. All ideas, greatly appreciated. Regards Bernt Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) 20210423_135820.jpg (1.85 MB, 16 downloads) Last edited by berntd; 04/22/21 06:02 PM. Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652655 04/22/21 08:45 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,294 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,294 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted By: berntd Hello everyone, It may not be 100% correct terminology but it is sometimes needed when a song finishes the verse and then the chorus starts. In the picture, bar 22 there are 3 notes that are the lead into the chorus. They are shown as accentuated. However, there has to be a break just before that and then those notes are played as an intro to the chorus but slowly. How can I achieve this? Currently BIAB is just bashing out the exact tempo and that ruins that song. Shots there do not work on their own as they are still bashing out the exact tempo. All ideas, greatly appreciated. Regards Bernt You can use Bar Settings function key <F5> to change the tempo at that bar, but it won't be a gradual change, just a sudden change at that bar. Then on the following bar, revert the tempo change. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? AudioTrack #652657 04/22/21 08:54 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia berntd OP Apprentice
OP berntd Apprentice Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia	Hello, Thank you. the tempo change has to be half way through that bar not at the beginning. A sudden end/break and a new start could work. No idea :-( Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? AudioTrack #652658 04/22/21 08:57 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,294 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,294 Melbourne, Australia	Thinking further, you might also add an additional bar before the tempo change, and set the number of beats to 1 or 2 and play a pause or a rest on that bar by placing 1 or 3 period characters after the chord: C. indicates a C chord that is a Rest. A chord can be specified as a Shot by adding two periods after the chord. C.. indicates a C chord that is a Shot. A chord can be specified as a Held Chord by adding three periods after the chord. C... indicates a C chord that is a Held Chord. That might give you a better lead in to the tempo change. You will need to experiment, but these ideas may assist. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? AudioTrack #652660 04/22/21 09:15 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia berntd OP Apprentice
OP berntd Apprentice Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia	I did play with the additional bar and having is as a break. However, decreasing the tempo for that bar cannot be undone again in the next bar. For example, if I slow down by 25% entered as -25 I can not get back tot the original tempo as that needs an increase of 33.3% which can only be entered as 33. So it will go from say 100 to 75 but back to 99 only. Likewise with other percentages. Also, having a break does not get the instruments to start afresh. They just seem to continue on and the result is as if you close your ears for one bar. Not great. Last edited by berntd; 04/22/21 09:16 PM. Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652661 04/22/21 09:22 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,294 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,294 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted By: berntd I did play with the additional bar and having is as a break. However, decreasing the tempo for that bar cannot be undone again in the next bar. For example, if I slow down by 25% entered as -25 I can not get back tot the original tempo as that needs an increase of 33.3% which can only be entered as 33. So it will go from say 100 to 75 but back to 99 only. Likewise with other percentages. Also, having a break does not get the instruments to start afresh. They just seem to continue on and the result is as if you close your ears for one bar. Not great. Tempo change can be set as an absolute value, not just a percentage change? See screen capture: Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) 2021-04-23_17-20-02.jpg (72.98 KB, 113 downloads) BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? AudioTrack #652663 04/22/21 10:20 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia berntd OP Apprentice
OP berntd Apprentice Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia	Yes, I know but then the song tempo has to stay fixed, which makes practicing slower and performing faster impossible. Percentage is the only option but they should have allowed fractions as that is crucial. Last edited by berntd; 04/22/21 10:21 PM. Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652669 04/23/21 12:06 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,294 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,294 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted By: berntd Yes, I know but then the song tempo has to stay fixed, which makes practicing slower and performing faster impossible. Percentage is the only option but they should have allowed fractions as that is crucial. I totally agree. I believe it has even asked for many, many times, and I guess it is technically possible, but the company has not delivered this feature so far. Maybe one day? Perhaps your added input to the wishlist may be helpful for them. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? AudioTrack #652670 04/23/21 12:18 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia berntd OP Apprentice
OP berntd Apprentice Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia	Oh, so it is not just me then. :-) Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652675 04/23/21 12:54 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,294 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,294 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted By: berntd Oh, so it is not just me then. :-) Well, possibly not. Try your voice at the wish-list. Sometimes things are delivered. It's always worth a try. I will provide a vote of support. Good luck! BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652681 04/23/21 03:29 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,120 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,120 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted By: berntd Oh, so it is not just me then. :-) Nope, I'm in the same boat! You probably will not like my solution but the only way to achieve this is to do it in a DAW with volume automation. You can increase or decrease the tempo anyplace in a song using this method, thus it will solve your problem. Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer. It's called the Heineken Maneuver. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652684 04/23/21 03:51 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2020 Posts: 836 Chantelle - PG Music PG Music Staff
Chantelle - PG Music PG Music Staff Joined: Oct 2020 Posts: 836	If you're using MIDI tracks, you can make notes seem to have a fermata effect by lengthening the notes in the PianoRoll. This will not work with RealTracks though because those are auto-generated only. There are holds that you can place on chords in the Chords view, however, this does not adjust the tempo. Also, the chord will hold until a new chord is written, so it won't sound like a fermata on the first chord with another chord right after it. Since the RealTracks are made from audio, it may or may not be feasible to make them lay fermatas on certain notes. But we will make a Wishlist report to development for making a fermata feature and see if they think it's possible. Best, Chantelle

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652687 04/23/21 03:59 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 26,979 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 26,979 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	That would be useful, Chantelle and thanks for passing along the idea. Since there are separately recorded Holds, it would seem it could be done technically for chordal instruments. Melody or Soloist, not sure. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652690 04/23/21 04:08 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 117 A Andy Ling Apprentice
Andy Ling Apprentice A Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 117	Going back to the "wish list" item. Rather than fractions, I would prefer an absolute percentage. So instead of the current change up or down by a percentage have a way of saying set it to this percentage of the nominal speed. Then you could say things like set it to 75%, then back to 100%. This would avoid the messy stuff like -25% and +33.333333% Andy

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652744 04/23/21 11:50 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia berntd OP Apprentice
OP berntd Apprentice Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia	Thanks folks! Right now, just drum strokes would be ok for me. I played around last night with adding an extra bar with silence and increasing its tempo by various amounts and then decreasing it again as close to original as possible, given the fraction limitations. For further correction, I then decreased or increased it again on the second bar. That gets back to orignal. At least for tempo 100. As for musical outcome of the above, it is soso. Because of the complete silence, it is very difficult to gauge the tempo when performing and then the syncronization at the next normal beat is off. It is hit and miss. @Andy, what can work too. A 'back to normal' button or setting for tempo. @Chantelle, Thank you, so it is called fermata! Regards Bernt Last edited by berntd; 04/23/21 12:02 PM. Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652745 04/23/21 11:52 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2001 Posts: 2,238 L Lloyd S Veteran
Lloyd S Veteran L Joined: May 2001 Posts: 2,238	I guess I was too slow in posting! lol

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? Lloyd S #652746 04/23/21 12:13 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia berntd OP Apprentice
OP berntd Apprentice Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia	Originally Posted By: Lloyd S I guess I was too slow in posting! lol Only momentarily :-) Thanks for that. I will check it out today. I would love to see the original sheet music thank you. I inserted a bar yesterday with 3 beats. That however seemed to stuff up the realtracks for the bars thereafter. Even when I changed it to 4 bars on the next bar again. Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652748 04/23/21 12:28 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 26,979 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 26,979 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	The Italian term 'fermata' just means either 'hold' or 'pause' and can mean either a note that is held for an uncertain amount of time, or a rest that is the same. It would be nice to have but at present has to be simulated, and only to the precision of one beat at a time. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: How can I create a break or retard and break before chorus? berntd #652808 04/23/21 09:03 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia berntd OP Apprentice
OP berntd Apprentice Joined: May 2019 Posts: 278 Sydney, Australia	@LLoyd, I checked it out. That midi file is actually quite good. I am not sure how one could do that with a Reealtracks style. I am still studying your chords but I see what you mean. regards Bernt Band in a Box Latest: ULTRA 2020 (734) on Win 10 And: MEGA 2020 (720) on Windows 7

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