PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Mic Cord Question

Is one mic cord really better sound wise than another? Example - mogami is pricier than whirlwind. I'm wondering what's true and what's ad hype. Your advice appreciated.

Some are and some aren't.

Considering that any two cables enjoy good sound connections, the way the coaxial cable is designed can indeed affect your audio quality.

Here's a tip that can quickly separate the wheat from the chaff -- with the mic connected at one end and the other end connected to you PA or recording gear and with the fader settings set properly for normal operation -- slap a three to six foot length of the cable on the floor.

You *hear* the slap and can view it on the VU meter, which can be done with almost any cable due to changes in cable capacitance as the conductors and shield are moved towards and away from each other inside the cable while it is being slapped on the floor.

A cable that makes less of the slap noise in the amplifier is likely to be the better choice as it will be quieter in operation.

Whirlwind makes good all around cables.

I always tell people to select one from the "middle area" price range.

In other words, don't go with the cheapie but don't go with the high priced spread either, for the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in kind of quickly with "audiophile grade" stuff for the most part.


--Mac

Josie,
The short answer is 'No.' The more complicated answer is 'No, but...'

Let's see.
Monster has:
* Three Time Correct multiple gauge wire networks
* MicroFiber dielectric reduces high-frequency loss and increases transient response time
* MultiTwist construction with dense 97% copper braided shielding to reduce the effects of EMI and RFI
* Carbon-infused polymer
* Heavy-duty black Neutrik XLRs with 24k hard gold-plated contacts
* Heavy-duty black nylon mesh jacket

What is 'Time Correct?' Lessee, electrons move at the speed of light, or 186,000 MILES per second. Since mics have a signal and ground only, and then a phantom power if they're condensor, I don't really see what difference an inch or two of cabling is going to make in any type of 'time' equation.

A dielectric really has nothing to do with high frequency loss and since it is an insulator, how it increases transient response time is beyond me thinking. You can look at Dielectric here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric Most dielectrics that I am familiar with are PVC coatings applied over the conductor wire, and you strip them with a pair of strippers, and then toss them in the trash can. They keep the conductors from shorting to each other, and since voltages found in a microphone are VERY low, think millivolts, I doubt that you'll have to worry about shorts from the dielectric breaking down.

Most three conductor cable, from ANYBODY, has a braided shield made of copper, and is twisted internally. So what.

Carbon infused polymer. Yeah, so what? Which polymer, the cable coating? What does it do?

Neutrik XLR connectors. Yay! Something I can talk about. If you can get a cable with Neutriks, do. That's what I use. They are great, and they're made in Liechtenstein! LOL

Mogami says:
* Most accurate cable available
* Widest frequency response
* Highest cancellation of hum and noise
* Increases dynamic range
* Lifetime guarantee

I don't see how they determine how one cable is more 'accurate' than another. I work in the industry, and I make my own cables from the above mentioned Neutriks, and a cable called "Gotham." Cut the cable, solder it onto the connector, and go. We send digital balanced signals through them, analog balanced and unbalanced through them, and mic signals through them, with and without phantom power, and the accuracy of them seems to be the same across the board. In fact, using these cables versus Digital Coax or Fiber Optic in a digital to digital format, I see NO LOSS of accuracy coming out either end. So, I don't know how Mogami says they are the most accurate cable you can buy. I suspect they are as accurate as the Monster.

As to the widest frequency response, remember you're not dealing with anything over 20kHz or so, and copper wire will go into the Megahertz, or well beyond with no problem. It's a moot point.

Highest cancellation of hum and noise is not a matter of the cable, but of the equipment that removes that hum and noise at either end of the cable. If an electrical signal is impressed on the cable, from an outside source...say a power cable laying next to it, the cable itself has very little to do with removing the hum and noise, since the electric field from the source is going to be impressed on everything. If you are using a balanced system, then the gear will remove the noise and hum. If it's a mic, you move the cord.

The dynamic range is the range measured from the lowest signal to the highest peak before the sound starts distorting. In today's age, that is usually the Analog to Digital converter. The cable would somehow have to put additional signal to reduce the available Dynamic Range of the cable, or would somehow have to remove some of the signal to increase it. I'm not sure I want a cable REMOVING signal from my mic to increase dynamic range, it might take out what I was trying to record.

Here is what Shure...remember Shure, the guys who make the famous SM57 and SM58 microphones....have to say about *their* cable.

The C25J is a 25', high-quality Shure cable designed for low-impedance operation.

Ya wanna know something? I'll buy the Shure cable. No pretentious stuff, it'll work just fine, and it won't break my wallet doing it.

Gary

I had such fun when Monster cables first came out, and the dealer told me that the signal was faster in those cables than in other brands. I asked him to explain the new laws of physics to me.

Where I've always seen the issues is not with the cable itself, but the crummy solder joints some mic cables come with. I used to swear by ProCo cables (it's a Michigan company and when I can I like to buy local - I'm a Michigan native), but we had a batch that had some less-than-pro solder joints that I had to re-solder to bring back to life.

If you can expose the solder connections before buying, do so. To me, that's where most of the quality issues come into play.

At one gig, we used Monster brand speaker cables (not mine - see post, above). The speaker was accidentally pushed against a wall. The speaker cable jack crumpled like tin foil. I looked at the jack and was amazed at the poor quality of construction. The jack cover snapped in two. The solder joints held, though, Scott ...

Dielectric can indeed have something to do with high frequency loss.

That's why one of the specifications for a coaxial or, in the case of the common low impedance mic cable, a biaxial cable is the capacitance per foot.

If the cable exhibits high enough capacitance per foot and if said cable is also long enough, for the capacitance here is additive, then we can indeed reach a point where the higher audio frequencies become attenuated.

In a really cheaply made cable, the problem can reach way down into the actual CENTER audio frequencies, too.

Still, going with one of the "middle of the road" priced cable sets would very likely keep the average performer out of trouble without having to first earn a Bachelor's in Electrical Engineering.

The Time Alignment thang is kinda funny, though.

--Mac

The physical qualities are also important. If you get a cable that tends to get all kinked up when you try to put it away it can break the conductors. A s the former President of a live sound company were mic cables by the hundreds were taken off of a spool and put back on night after night by idiots that would work for free just to see the show this is important.Never take a mic cable and wrap it around your arm to roll it up. If you're using a few hook them end to end and roll up on a spool.

Had an instructive experience with cables lately that might have some relevance. You decide.

Not an XLR mic cable but a bass guitar cord. I was using the no name generic 20 foot cable that happened to come in the bass case when I bought it. It seemed to be as good as any of my other instrument cables of mine but a handy length for usage in church as I stroll about a bit when playing.

It started to crackle, then intermittently fail. Okay, I thought, its probably at the end of its service life, I'll get something the same length but a bit better for all round use, home recording, and my covers band.

I ended up buying the most expensive cable I've ever spent money on. A 20 foot Planet Waves item. Gold plated phone jack terminals with a dinky switch at the instrument end for noiseless instrument changes, very sturdy construction that is absoloutely noiseless even when trodden on, built in cable tie, but what really sold me was the audible improvement in the instruments sound. Like putting a better cartridge in your record player, if you ever did that. More informative, as we used to say in hi fi discussions years ago. Not a night and day difference but an audible improvement in dynamic range. $65 Australian, say $58 USD. Lifetime guarantee no questions asked, provided you have your receipt. They make XLR cables too, hence my post. Just something I didn't expect to learn after all these years but there you go.

Cheers,

John

One of the mods over at audiominds did a bit of research on this exact thing.

He ended up being so impressed with the difference in sound that he is now making cables for instruments. He researched the cabling, etc. and found out a lot about how a cable is actually a filter. To see his findings (and his cables) you can visit http://purplecables.com

He is an pretty intelligent guy and also had the character to go into it open minded enough to let the results lead him, rather than try to create results. A few of us know him fairly well. I won't speak for others, but it would be nice if they chimed in.. he also offers a lifetime guarantee, has had the cables used in professional settings (lots of use) and has yet to have to replace a cable (well as of last week when I last talked to him).

I had some experience engineering Cable TV systems where coaxial cable transports the signal.

1) The dielectric does matter
2) The distance between the conductor and the shield does matter
3) The size of the conductor does matter
4) The integrity of the shield does matter

In general, the bigger the center conductor, the distance between the conductor and shield, and the integrity of the outer shield are the most important factors (assuming that most cables use a decent grade of dielectric).

And it matters more on long runs than it does on short runs.

Now assuming that you have 99% or 100% shielding.

The bigger the center conductor and the bigger the distance between the center conductor and the shield will result in less signal loss. And the signal loss isn't flat, the high frequencies go first.

But there is a point of diminishing returns. There gets to be a place where adding X dollars to the cost of manufacturing doesn't make as much difference as the last X dollars did. And the next X dollars will make even less of a difference.

Depending on your needs, you will probably be best with Mac's advice - go for the middle priced cables.

I have one situation where Monster cables do make a difference. I have a long (30') cable the goes from a line level output to an amp/monitor combination. I really only needed 25' and the Planet Waves cable I had before would pick up a lot of interference (buzz/hum). The $50 Monster cable does not. Probably due to better shielding.

That is the only situation where I use the expensive cable, the rest are mid-priced.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Be advised that Cable TV is a *much* higher frequency and bandwidth than the 20Hz to 20KHz Audio signal.

Matter of fact, Cable TV is in the RF region of the spectrum.

At those much higher frequencies, the parameters mentioned have *much* more impact on signal integrity.

Still, a cheap audio cable can be detrimental to the sound, of course.


--Mac

Yes, CATV is up the the RF spectrum so the differences do have much more impact on the signal. Plus the cable stretches are much longer. But even then, the cables are designed with the point of diminishing returns in mind. Main trunk cables are bigger in diameter and more expensive. Distribution cables less so. The drop (from the "terminal" to your house) even less so. A longer cable to your house will have slightly bigger cable than the average as well. But the same parameters do apply in the audio spectrum. But as Mac pointed out, to a lesser extent.

Plus you have to consider the rest of the signal chain.

In the case of my Monster Cable use. The monitor does not have the greatest audio bandwidth so I can hear absolutely no difference between the Planet Waves and the Monster Cable as far as the desired signal is concerned.

The only difference I can hear is this. In those environments where there is a lot of interference sources (light dimmers, etc.) the monitor is quieter with the Monster Cable.

Again, probably due to better shielding.

Your frequency response will only be as good as the weakest link in the chain. For example, if you have a guitar amp with 12" speakers that cut off at 7kHz, there is no reason to get a cable that will pass 20kHz. Even if your speakers cut off at 12kHz, the 20kHz cable is a waste.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

I'll second the Planet Waves instrument cables. Tried one about a year ago and was so impressed that they are the only brand I will buy now. They are pretty flexible and yet very strong, and have that nifty built-in tie on them. Good stuff.

I find this to be a very interesting discussion by people who know what they're talking about.
Now, can someone tell me what is the difference between an XLR to XLR and an XLR to RTS cable for my mic. My poor old ears can't detect any difference yet the younger guys in my band insist that I should use XLR to XLR

Thanks Mac. RTS was a typo!

A salesman told me always have spigon connectors. It`s the best. I thought about it and said, OK, some dude trips over my cable and the speaker is going to for sure hit the floor. But if I route the cable right and it`s a jack, the jack comes out. Hmmm....

The best thing is to try before you buy.

John, it's not 'spigon' - it's 'SpeakON'. The salesman maybe didn't pronounce the name of the connector correctly, but in fact, the salesman was right about those connectors being the best for speaker cables.

If you have your mains up on speaker stands properly, with a correctly sized tripod, with the legs at their most stable, the dude will trip, the speaker will stay in place and the only problem you'll have will possibly be a lawsuit from the dude because you routed your speaker cable where it shouldn't have been or didn't take care to make sure it wasn't a trip hazard. All of those conditions might seem like a hassle, but safety should always be the primary concern when it comes to mounting speakers and routing cables. Always. Gaffer tape is your friend here, as well as a couple heavy industrial rubber backed throw-rugs to lay over where cables have to cross pathways.

The main benefit with speak-on connectors is that they break both sides of the signal to the speaker simultaneously - avoiding a 'pop' to the speaker; unlike 1/4 cables. Also, because of the way they are designed, they can't be mistaken for other cables - like the age-old issue of folks using undersized instrument cables to handle powered signals from amps to speakers and vice-versa.

In my part-time work as a live sound engineer, I'll take speakON connectors over 1/4 plugs/jacks every day of the week.

Shame on the salesman for not properly explaining the benefits.