PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Band in a Box 2021 - Unstable

Well, can't say we all didn't give it the good college try.

Goldy, we're asking you to temporarily try BIAB without your Fireface so that we can determine whether the Fireface is the issue or whether your computer is the issue - ideally you would want to find that out before you go out and spend money on a new sound card only to find out that wasn't the issue.

I did speak with the development department here, and they all said it has a high probability of being your interface. It's still a good idea to make sure of that, by trying BIAB without the Fireface connected.

I have these same instability issue with BIAB 2021 on windows 10.
Crashes, Refuses to close, etc.
I also have an RME sound device.
It is rock solid with Cubase 11, MixBus32 7.0, and Native Instruments Maschine.

Using BIAB 2021 as a VST gives minimal problems.

These issues and the lock-in on a 44.1 sample rate are really turning me off to PGmusic.

This will be the last year I upgrade without the ability to test thoroughly first.

Regards

datho, i think the previous posts are asking Goldy to test the interface and see if that is the problem. if it is then i am sure PG Music will try to fix it. but unless we hear back from Goldy nobody can be sure that your problems can be fixed with a tweak that applies to your sound device.

most of us don't have the same problems, and as for testing new releases of BIAB don't forget PG do a 30 day money back offer. so i think you can trust them to do their best for your device and give you your money back if you try and don't like.

datho.
ive given this much further thought/your needs and other users needs from a computer engineering aspect as follows.
NOTE : I MIGHT BE COMPLETELY WRONG HERE.
but i find it interesting that other 2021 users arent haveing similar problems.
please follow my logic.

1. i am aware that some/many studios use higher end interfaces like rme for higher recording and sampling rates eg 24 bit // 96khz.
2. given point 1 and the fact that biab likes 44.1/16 bit
is this a possible source of problems/conflict/crashes ?

datho ; there is another aspect. from a computer engineering aspect.
i suspect from this standpoint that a NORMAL DAW THAT DOES NOT HAVE AUTO ACCOMPANIEMENT FUNCTIONS IN IT ; it is easier to support users needs/functions for HIGHER BIT DEPTHS AND SAMPLING RATES.

REMEMBER BIAB IS A UNIQUE PROGRAM. THUS i suspect if pg built in all sorts of supports for multiple sampling rates up to 192 khz PLUS multiple bit depths. this might realise not only a more bloated program...
BUT THERE IS ALSO ANOTHER MAJOR IMPLICATION.
remember the GENERATION OF REAL TRAKS PROCESS is building complete real traks from stored "snippets". its doing this in probably what some might term "look ahead" methods. ie building buffers of audio before they are needed.
A DAW DOES THIS TOO ! BUT IT DOESNT HAVE THE ADDED WRINKLE OF AUTO ACCOMPANIEMENT FEATURES AND GENERATING REAL TRAKS.

also datho if pg implemented multiple bit depths and sampling rates i suspect the real traks library would be HUGE.
which has user implications downloading in the future.
the download time would multiply and frustrate users.
lets take a piano RT it would have to have been recorded originally in multiple bit depths and sampling rates up to 32 bit 192 khz ?.
(pg can tell me if i'm wrong on this point.)

see what i mean ?
in conclusion it is too simplistic imho to expect biab to support all sorts of bit depths and sampling rates because there are software engineering implications down deep in the code.
if this stuff were trivial datho you would see many more biab competitors like there are many daw multitrak competitors .(Ptools/cubase/reaper/mixcraft/cubase/samp/nuendo etc etc.)

(now MIDI is a whole different story being just data.)

if i'm correct about the above datho from a software engineering standpoint THEN the pg software engineers are in a catch 22.
i am sure they would like to fulfill everyones desires for more than 44.1/16 support BUT they realise the complex implications.

maybe someone from pg will say "muso is out to lunch" and we can do that. lol.

in the interim datho it would be helpfull if you posted the following pics (otherwise the rest of us are guessing.)
.pics of your rme audio settings.bit depths and sampling rates.
.pics of your biab audio and midi driver settings.
.pics of your other music daw settings/bit depths/sampling rates. ie cubase and mixbus etc.
.pics of your win recording and playback bit depths and sampling rates

thus the rest of us plus pg simon who has rme can have a gander.

LET ME CLOSE IN ASKING DATHO ARE YOU USEING RATES HIGHER THAN 44/1/16 IN YOUR OTHER MUSIC SOFTWARE.


wishing you only the best.
i-think-rme-is-great-gear-oldmuso-an-ex-tech
ps maybe i'll get egg on my face lol.

Just short notice.
Weekend is coming and i"ll try what Simon said.

As fore what Justanoldmuso wrote - Totally agree.
PG (and we all here) really try in this one.
No software ever been perfect and it's impossible to predict all hardware and software combinations and configurations
(believe me, I'm working with many critical organizational softwares). that's the reasons for updates.

Oldmuso, yes, I concur, and I touched on this in some reply in this thread way back when. If you don't get a sample lock between digital audio devices, you get no sound. Worth checking everything. Notably, Windows updates have a habit of switching my Windows Sound Settings for no reason.

dathho - does BIAB work properly without your RME connected, using your internal sound card? Does the problem happen if you only have BIAB open and no other audio app?

Lock in on 44.1 sample rate only happens with ASIO, since BIAB has to lock sample rate with the interface. If you use WAS or MME in BIAB that won't happen.


I find it interesting I'm not having problems with my RME, if the problems in this thread are somehow tied to the RME device.


This is often a conflict, and what I suspect is the issue for datho.

Point of clarification - BIAB likes 44.1, but 16/24/32 bit doesn't matter much. BB can operate with your interface set to 192k when using WAS instead of ASIO (possibly higher, my interface only goes to 192k).


The Realtracks would be around 12.75 TB if they were 32-bit 192khz. They'd be about 4.8tb at 24-bit 96khz.


Don't worry muso, we won't say that! Or at least, not in public...


I agree, this would be very helpful!

Hi guys.

Tests:
1. Open and close BB 5 times (no song-just open) the process close correctly.
2. Open BB and from within, open different songs, and afterword close - the process close 3 times, 2 time stay open.
3. Open songs by double click – most of the time the process stay open.
4. Open Cubase and close - process stay open.
5. Disconnect FF sound card (windows internal sound)- the same sound problem.
6. Open the same BB song a few times – some time the sound work OK some time I hear noise and sometime no sound at all.

As I was looking on it, I'm not sure the sound issue and the process issue are related.
It seems the process issue is more related to Windows error than for BB.
I googled it and found quite a few reference for this.

Sending an attached file with what you asked.

Oldmuso, you have another thread on this same question in the Recording forum. That’s a good place for it. There are many possible answers and they could be large. They would hijack this thread.

So far, Mario and I answered you there.

Do you mean the Cubase process stays open in this case, not the BB process?


Do these problems happen on a fresh boot, having not run any of your other audio apps or used the Fireface at all?

Can you go to Options > Preferences > Audio > Audio Drivers, and disable ASIO Always On, and see if that helps? Also, try increasing your Fireface buffer from 256 samples to 512 or 1024.


If the Cubase process is also staying open, then I certainly think this is the case.



Looking at the doc, in Cubase try enabling "Release driver when application is in background". Also, you're using two different devices in Windows for input and output - try setting the Fireface as the default device for both input and output.

Hi Simon.

1.Do you mean the Cubase process stays open in this case, not the BB process?
Yes.
2. Do these problems happen on a fresh boot, having not run any of your other audio apps or used the Fireface at all?
Yes.
3. As for Cubase I just mention it happens ALSO with Cubase.
Cubase didn't run while running BB (Restart - run Cubase, restart - run BB.

Step 3: I'm a little lost. Restart what?

E.g.: "Restart computer - then run Cubase?" or "restart Cubase?"

Please it's important to tell us exactly what this means.
"Restart - run Cubase" could be interpreted as "restarting Cubase" or "Restarting the computer and then running Cubase"

Please be very specific about every individual step so that there can be no misinterpretation of what comprised those steps. Thanks for understanding.

Sorry -Restart the computer

You know this, no doubt, but there is a setting in the BIOS where fast boot may not actually clear everything. I disable it.

The only sure restart is a cold boot i.e. turn off and on.

Hi Matt.

Any Reboot clear all (including RAM).
Windows, software and drivers.
Restart and shutdown are two terms that are used interchangeably.
The difference between Restart and Shutdown is that Restart temporarily shuts down the computer and starts it again while shut down completely powers off the computer.

What you refer in the BIOS are series of tests That that Fast Boot normally skip.

Hi Simon.
Not sure, if it any help, but in attached file are all exe and dll used by process of BB while stay open.
Most doesn't say much to me, but maybe the develops people can see something.