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Songwriting
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Joined: Jun 2021
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Can any one address an issue with adding drums? Is there any way to isolate individual drums? For example if You wanted to increase the volume of only the kick drum for a part of a song.
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In BIAB, No. In any DAW or sampler? Yes. Can you use a DAW to sample Real Drums? Addressed in this thread today: Drums in BIAB
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You can in A DAW as Mike alluded to but it is a bit tedious.
In the folder for each RD there is an audio file of the RD and at the end of that file there are separate hits for each drum kit component which you can use an editor to cut out. I often use the snare and crashes cymbal to double those in the RD and I can put my own processing on them. With my DAW it’s very easy as you can lock them to the Rd track with the Groove Track function - I assume other DAWs have a similar function.
You can also use EQ to lessen the volume of the component you are doubling in the full RD track.
And you can volume shape, for example, the snare down throughout the track. I do this on a section and then copy the volume automation lane across the track.
Yes tedious but it works. And a big advantage is that you are using the same hit by the same drummer on the same kit as in the RD. And it’s possible to use those hits to build your own intro or outro or fills.
And simply doubling the kick or snare and nothing else allows you to increase the volume and add your fx. I’ve done this for years FWIW.
Bud
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There is one advantage to using a commercial library in a DAW to enhance or add drum tracks over sampling the BIAB hits. The BIAB Drum hits at the end are sampled at one velocity. Commercial drum library hits are sampled at multiple velocities—like real life, the tone of a drum changes when it is hit harder or softer.
In addition, you have round-robin where multiple hits on the same drum use different samples to mimic drummers do not hit the same spot each time. BIAB Real Tracks/Drums, by using real drummers, does that part well on the tracks but the hit samples at the end of the tracks cannot.
Since BIAB tempi are quantized, it's easy to build a tempo map in any DAW and add a drum track using a commercial library. The down side: it is additional work and the best results are obtained by thinking like a real drummer.
There's another option. Drumagog ($99-$199), Slate Trigger ($149) and others have drum replacement apps that can hear the BIAB Drums and let you substitute other libraries. The apps include a few and you can buy add-ons or switch to other libraries. You do this in a DAW, of course but, if you like the playing on a track but not the actual samples, there's your solution without having to program a track from scratch.
I do all of the above in my work.
Some of the commercial libraries are inexpensive while others cannot be justified unless you have a film budget to charge them against. Many DAWs include basic libraries that are ok but it's the 3rd party stuff that gets deep into multi-velocity and round-robin.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Some of the drum synths will automatically give the option to use a stereo track for the drums or to use multiple tracks. If you have a synth in your DAW which is capable of multitrack output... the solution is easy. Just use volume envelopes on that track/part of the kit.
Barring that and when you are working in BB/RB where you only get one track with all the drums in it.... you can do a sort of a workaround by using EQ and accenting the lows for example if you want the kick to stand out or the mids and highs to accent the snare and cymbals.... but that kind of control is limited in it's usefulness.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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My ignorance in this area is not keeping me from commenting and asking, 1) Isn't is a little unorthodox to tweak the drum track after the fact? I mean, it seems to me the drum track is the first thing to be established, then the primary rhythm including chord changes.
That said, I can easily see how issues could arise synching the lyrics with the rhythm, especially when the emphases don't match. Just asking, really.
(I might think the astute BIAB user would also be proficient in drum machine.)
Last edited by edshaw; 06/09/21 09:44 AM.
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My ignorance in this area is not keeping me from commenting and asking, 1) Isn't is a little unorthodox to tweak the drum track after the fact? I mean, it seems to me the drum track is the first thing to be established, then the primary rhythm including chord changes.
That said, I can easily see how issues could arise synching the lyrics with the rhythm, especially when the emphases don't match. Just asking, really.
(I might think the astute BIAB user would also be proficeint in drum machine.)
Hi Ed, FYI There has been a number of times BobH and I have been recorded live. That means two guitars and singer(s) going into one track. We do this just for fun but sometimes it really sounds good so I will add a drum track, a bass track, and maybe some other tracks. Since these are recorded without a click track I do all of that work in my DAW, usually playing live with my bass and MIDI controllers. The drums are either MIDI drum loops (BiaB drums or other companies) modified to match the tempo changes or inputted via drum pads.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Ed,
Sometimes people create a basic drum track to keep time while recording the rest of the tracks in a song. After the song tracks are created there may be a desire to make the drum track fit into the song better by changing the volume, tone or mix of the individual drum instruments throughout the song.
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What Mario does with his controllers is out of this world. But I'm not talking about adding an instrument or vocal track to a work in progress. What I should have said was that I recently paricipated in a collab where people were members of a digital choir. (Everyone has seen the "around the world" team efforts.)
The producer didn't have a strong basic rhythm track and his vocals were all over. He somehow thought a click track would help. Now, I'm not one to sound a discouraging word, but his result would have been so much better had he a strong drum track, even if he eventually deleted it. These thoughts were fresh in my mind when I asked that question.
It was painful, really, to listen and listen and try to follow.
Last edited by edshaw; 06/09/21 09:54 AM.
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Ed, I did not explain myself very well; I'm really good at that. Drums are one of the instruments I add after BobH and I have a recorded track; much like what you described.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I never use a click track. It's simply a waste of time. I start with the drum track in the song.....since I am using BB, why not?
When I import into Sonar, Part of my normal set up is to mute the metronome immediately. I simply set the tempo and move forward. I have a few EQ presets that I pop into the drum track to make it pop out a bit.... but aside from that...
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I'm with it now, Mario; if I can ever be said to be truly with it with anything.
Last edited by edshaw; 06/14/21 04:55 AM.
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I never use a click track. It's simply a waste of time. I start with the drum track in the song.....since I am using BB, why not?
Whatever… All my online projects have a click unless they're choral pieces—those are done to a conductor over Zoom since the tempo is fluid. I like to compose the drum track next to last. Last is for bass.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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