PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Band in a Box [2020, VST Plugin] crashes Reaper big time..

Sorry to take so long to get back my friends.



Okay, I tried that Simon and I also set the buffer to 512 instead of 128 but still crashing.

I did find that when in loop mode, Reaper doesn't crash, I guess it's because it's not stopping.

I'm not sure where to go next, I've looked through the Reaper Preferences and didn't spot anything.

I forget Dan, what version of BIAB do you have, I think you said 2021? It could be related to the 2020 version.

Any BIAB persons that use Reaper and have BIAB 2020, and also use Windows 10?

I am on most current version of BIAB-VST. And in my mind, for your case, it has always been about the older BIAB-VST 2020 version and/or your Reaper configurations.



Seems you have found a Reaper configuration setting which stops the crash. Perhaps you may need to post in the Reaper Forum to dig deeper.

TVI and Dan.
the problem these days is there are sooo many settings tween the daw and the sound device (in this case komplete 6. TVI is it multi client or not ?) and windows and also plug in settings (in this case bb which likes 44.1/16).
if you go on lots of gear manufacturer user forums ie host daws/plug ins/sound devices etc etc user forums as well as general user forums where gear is discussed like gearspace.com , youll see lots of threads bout various issues related to the topic of "correct settings".
so its not just limited to pg forums ; where every year one sees many posts related to settings. and possible problems.

thus TVI (and i'm really annoyed at myself for not finding what the problem might be !) i started the following thread asking for clarification from pg because frankly certain aspects of plug in operation is not clear to me at a technical level.
(i went through the pg vids again etc )
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=660101#Post660101

and in the bb wishlist i asked for a new series of vids re setting up settings in pg products in conjunction with host daws and win and popular sound devices. ie some clear set of rules.
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=660009#Post660009

it would help TVI if you could support both posts.
i'm waiting for clarification from pg regarding the first subject above. ie a rules based answer is needed. because otherwise its a guessing game.

the only idea i can think of further TVI is to download a demo of another daw and test bb as a plug in with it and see if NOW there is no problems etc . the other idea might be to try bb as a plug in within realband and see if that works.
an interesting concept eh ?
the reason i suggest trying another daw TVI is IF bb works
flawlessly then we know its not a bug in bb and there is possibly an issue in reaps. however if the same problem occurs in another host daw it points possibly to a bug in bb. so maybe try demo of studio one or traction waveform etc etc.

please dont get me wrong. i have a lot of respect for pg.
and its amazeing how far they have brought the bb product and the joy they have given the rest of us from all over the world.
BUT setting up settings has got so complex, now with the added complexity of useing bb in a host; i just feel lots more clarity/education via vids is needed regarding settings.

apologies for not helping getting at the root cause of your problem. now its time for some tea lol.

best to you.
oldmuso.

A couple of days ago I purchased a new Kontakt Library. I was trying it out in Reaper and Reaper went belly up. Restarted the PC seeing as how the ASIO got locked up. I then ran the same thing in Cakewalk and Cakewalk did the same. I thought I’ll address this later and went back into Reaper to do something else. Reaper went belly up yet again,

Mmm!! I said I now have an issue on a PC that has been fairly stable for years. What has changed. I did the usual update the day before I purchased the new library. So I uninstalled the update. Reaper ran fine again. I used the new library in Cakewalk and it worked fine.

At this time I assume it was the update (which installed a heap of trash that the kindly MS people just knew I could not live without that I turned off as soon as I found it).

I guess what I’m trying to say it is not always the plugin.

Tony

Yes, what an absolute pain. They are taking computers from being something we wish to use to be productive and turning them into marketing tools that contain extraneous 'goodies' that many don't want, and never asked for (but got anyway). This is a classic example of Bloat-Ware.

I just want a computer. I don't need to be automatically reminded about the weather in Alaska or what country has opened a new bridge to improve traffic. All of that is counter-productive and an unwanted distraction to my workflow.

Now, back to the program...

ALL.
this is why my recording daw pc never sees the net.
(i havent had a win problem in years on my no net daw.)
day after day my recording pc works without problem.

i use a seperate cheap refurb pc for the net that i keep lean and mean. but lo and behold with latest win update i TOO got all the weather junk etc. so i removed it.

please note i was not knocking the bb plug in.
BUT i do feel more clarification via vids on settings in more detail etc etc as per my links upthread are needed.
us old timers can normally solve problems; BUT people new to daws and recording rigs , if you go on various forums; post about all sorts of settings issues/problems etc.
THERE ARE SIMPLY TOO MANY SETTINGS BETWEEN THE VARIOUS
RECORDING RIG COMPONENTS.
thus my posts in bb wishlist and the plug in forum.
i believe more CLARITY and education vids are NEEDED for new users.

best
oldmuso.

Need to get back on topic guys...

I have been able to reinstall BIAB 2020 and the BIAB-VST v2.12.15 along with current Reaper on a Laptop. A fresh install of all. This should match the OP's versions. I ran the conditions specified with the time selection set for 8 bars in Reaper to reproduce crush conditions.

If you have viewed TVI's video you know what the crash looks like. I'll let you see the results and come to your own conclusions.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11deVZTfj9FM1gzl9oPhErpt3BWd8KGm3/view?usp=sharing

Dan

Dan, thanks for the detail.

I don't use Reaper, so I haven't been able to offer anything constructive on this issue.

You mentioned:

I watched the results, which I presume are your testing results. I noted that it didn't crash.

Firstly, a big effort on your part to create the same environment. Thanks!

Secondly, can we collectively suspect that the issue is presumably quite local to TVI's settings/configurations etc?

Thirdly, I' not familiar with this issue being identified elsewhere, so it may be quite local. Are there any suggestions on how that might be identified?

Yes, my results show no crash - sorry for being so cryptic.

So here is my take. Keep in mind, I have been a vocal advocate for the Reaper/BIAB-VST for a long time, so I may be a bit biased. But yes, likely this is a "local settings/configurations". In this case the 2020 version of the BIAB-VST was functional, and I showed it was still functional, but may not be as robust nor as bullet proof as the newest version. But this is complicated by the PGMusic business model which moves forward with new versions each year which improves and corrects the software, but does not go back to revise prior versions (or only rarely). In addition, troubleshooting of the older version is difficult since many here in the forum (users who support this product) have moved on to the newer version. This is just my take on the situation.

Add to this, new users tend to use the software differently so bug discoveries are always possible. Heck, Reaper has issued many many revisions since Oct 2020 when TVI's version of the BIAB-VST was issued. I also know that TVI uses deeper editing features in Reaper than I ever have - take a look at his screen shots. So his workflow is much different.

Best suggestion I have for TVI is to update to current version (~ 69USD). If he still has a problem I imaging the full force of the PGMusic development team will jump on it. Or within 30 days he can request his money back.

Dan.,
i'll keep it brief as the weekend is soccer pour moi.lol.
well done dan!
the only next step i might suggest is that you and TVI
compare your reaper and biab settings as well as win
recording/playback settings . thus identify any discrepencies in settings. i would love to know why it works fine for one but not other. cos maybe we can help people in the future if this occurs again.

out of curiosity were you running reaps with asio and biab with was drivers ?. due to my vision i couldnt make out from your vid reaps settings under the X.

best
oldmuso

Ya, the video capture on the laptop was last minute improvised , but (OBS Studio) I thought it would be better. In my video it was only Reaper with BIAB-VST on a single track. On the laptop Reaper was just Audio Out?? I have no music gear associated with the laptop other than Reaper and BIAB and the laptop internal speaker. So no time was spent setting up configurations. Just installed and run for purposes of the test. there was not even any sound since nothing was loaded in the BIAB-VST. That was the crash conditions in the OPs setup.

Otherwise, on my DAW computer. Reaper is always MOTU Audio and BIAB in MME.

Okay Dan, but you need to set it up so that the cursor stops when it get's to the end of the timeline. I've got a toggle switch in one of my toolbars for doing that. You can find it in the "Actions".

I sure appreciate how you're taking the time to do this Dan.

I am actually pretty slow in Reaper and just kinda do what I know how to do to get done what I do. I have looked into these toolbars with some videos - lots of this is new to me. I am trying to figure out if I can download a selection of buttons. Can you share one of your tool bars? Would I know what to do with it if you did? Or here is an idea, can you send me a Reaper file (.mpp) with the exact actions which cause the crash? I am glad to help you, but afraid I am going to need some help to do that.

Dan

Okay Dan, I will send you my complete Reaper file so you can see how I have mine set up. Of course there will be a lot of my Toolbar actions that won't work because many of them require scripts. However it might give you an idea of what you can do.

Incidentally, I just tried this with a fresh Reaper install, and Reaper crashed when I set up a loop with the action to stop at the end of the loop being on. This is with BIAB showing.

Dan, are you familiar with the actions in Reaper at all. Use "?" (Shift+/) to open the actions. Then in the filter box, type "Transport: Toggle stop playback at end of loop if repeat is disabled". Then assign a shortcut key to that action.

Are you familiar with the "SWS" extension and do you have them installed, although you don't need them for this.

Here is a fresh portable Reaper install, I added a couple of toolbars, one at the top that helps to add tracks and then a toolbar#2 with the "transport stop playback at end of loop" in it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AL2BCD0nn-RwQSJv89_RhwFYGfZOQKg4/view?usp=sharing

TVI.
without knowing reaper and biab at the deep computer programmer level; it is difficult for any user like myself to comment further because there are just too many variables. like custom actions as an example.
for example i dont know what is happening in reaps code or biab's code when a stop command is issued. maybe there is some added process tripping up things when a custom action/script is involved.

how one user does custom actions/scripts might be very different from another. i'm sure biab coders code for the normal expected reaps operation.
whether this is an issue i dont know. only pg can comment on that as they know their own code.
there might be things going on internally within reaps and biab that neither dan nor i know about. ie this is moving into areas i dont feel qualified to comment on further cos i just dont know.
even if dan runs a test and finds everything works or not it might not explain things without knowing the internal programming of reaps and biab.

its a pity pipeline hasnt been involved in this thread cos he knows actions/scripting etc in great detail. and has posted many interesting procedures on these forums.
he is on the reaper forum ; if that helps at all.

vaguely....
(and i might be wrong in this ..ex tech/songwriter getting old lol) but awhile back i seem to remember pipe and Dr Gannon haveing an interesting discussion relating to daw/biab interaction , and DR Gannon explaining why biab could not do certain things which technically made sense to me. whether the issues your haveing are related i dont know.

all i will say in conclusion is IF in normal reaps operation STOP is not causeing a crash BUT as part of a custom action/script it IS AND GIVEN that probably biab is coded to interract with reaps in one expected way only per VST(i) programming rules THEN this might be a clue as to the crash aspect.
frankly this might be just one of those situations with no resolution.


sorry i cant help you further TVI ; above my pay grade. lol.
the coders who know both reaps and biab internals need to get involved in this imho.

best
oldmuso

Tod,
Did you see my PM? Best if we go forward off-line. I may need to ask a couple stupid questions and don't want to share my ignorance with my colleagues here. Lets pick this up in the PM section. Will come back here when we have a conclusion.
Dan

Actually it's not a custom action, but an action that's part of Reaper. However, Dan and I got it worked out, and I want to thank you oldmuso, for trying to help.

Tod

TVI/Dan.
well done.
so what was the reason for crash ?
whats the solution in case other users get the same issue ?
perhaps you might communicate with pg support to make an faq
in the faq's list that states the problem and the solution
in case other pg users come across the same issue when useing reaps.

best
oldmuso
ps soccer england 1 croatia 0 me happy yay lol.

We concluded the bug report is confirmed and remains present in the current version of the BIAB-VST. So it is on a list of "known bugs" until is can be resolved. PG Developers have been notified.