I often become frustrated at not being able to come up with really good melodies for my instrumental BIAB compositions. This is after I write a very satisfying chord progression with good form and in a good style. Personally I find melody writing the most difficult aspect of writing music. Sometimes I can get intrigued by BIAB Melodist doing its thing, but it's still sub-par quality and it's still not MY writing.
I find that when I step back from the music, playing it in my head over time, the ideas for melodies just start coming to me, usually when I'm nowhere near an instrument, computer, or music paper, or when I just don't feel like getting out of bed LOL.
When I get these melodic ideas, it strikes me that it would be so much faster to sing them into a recorder, to be transferred to my BIAB pieces, or, if I happen to luckily get them while still on BIAB, to sing them into a microphone right onto the chords.
Any suggestions for a good portable recorder or a specific microphone for singing melodies into BIAB instrumental compositions?
I would consider a gaming headset with an attached microphone. That way you can record your melodic improvisations while listening to Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) playback. However, one issue is your recording will be out-of-sync with BiaB since the recording is happening after playback.
Another option would be to purchase an inexpensive digital voice recorder.
Another option is to use the recording app in a smart phone.
Finally, if you have a media player hiding in a drawer, most of them can record.
I'm thinking now I really should have put this thread into the Songwriting forum.
With a portable recorder like the Zoom (do they still make those, I'll have to look that up)or a smart phone, I'd have to transfer the vocal melodies to BIAB via an SD card, right?
But I'm wondering, if I can record a vocal audio performance into BIAB with a mic plugged into the mic jack on my desktop, how would I render that melody from my voice to a chosen instrument (so that a trumpet or sax or guitar etc. is playing it instead of my voice)? Is that a simple operation, or what?
With a portable recorder like the Zoom (do they still make those, I'll have to look that up)or a smart phone, I'd have to transfer the vocal melodies to BIAB via an SD card, right?
Sometimes BobH and I will just jam and record it via the DR-05. If we have a song or a section that we like I transfer it to my DAW. Then I search for a BiaB style that fits. You would transfer it straight into BiaB and line it up with the BiaB tracks.
Originally Posted By: Leovigild
But I'm wondering, if I can record a vocal audio performance into BIAB with a mic plugged into the mic jack on my desktop, how would I render that melody from my voice to a chosen instrument (so that a trumpet or sax or guitar etc. is playing it instead of my voice)? Is that a simple operation, or what?
That is possible with Melodyne and other audio to MIDI converters. I have found Melodyne to be the best at audio to MIDI and if you are only going to convert monophonic instruments like you voice then the least expensive Melodyne will work:
Note that RealBand has a monophonic audio to MIDI converter so if you are on a Windows machine you might want to try that. I have not used that one so I can't help. However in all of the audio to MIDI programs I have tried Melodyne is the best: that is there is a lot fewer mistakes and in fact many of the conversions I have done with Melodyne I had no mistakes.
Good luck
PS - I should add that Melodyne is 64 bit only and I have not tried it in BiaB. You may have to run it as a stand-a-lone program and bring in your vocal track, convert it in Melodyne, then transfer the MIDI track back into BiaB.
I arrived early to a restaurant. The manager asks, "do you mind waiting a bit?" I said no. "Good", he said. "Take these drinks to table 3"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
With a portable recorder like the Zoom (do they still make those, I'll have to look that up)or a smart phone, I'd have to transfer the vocal melodies to BIAB via an SD card, right?
I use a Zoom H1N quite often. A big attraction is that it's small enough (just) to keep in a pocket. Whatever you use needs to be with you or it's useless! It connects via USB as a memory device, so it's just a matter of plugging it in and copy or move the files to you PC.
My other thought, like Jim's, is your mobile 'phone. The quality is likely not so good, but the chances of you having it with you are pretty high.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
I often use the built in Voice Recorder in my phone. Since I'm only recording "ideas", sound quality doesn't really matter.
If you're actually looking for good sound quality for these ideas, or if you want it to serve double duty doing other good-quality recordings, I'd second the suggestion of portable audio recorders - Zoom, Tascam, Roland, and others make inexpensive audio recorders with built in mics that tend to sound pretty decent. You get what you pay for there of course, but a cheap 100-buck recorder usually sounds better than a free app built into a phone.
Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 06/14/2109:32 AM.
One issue you will face using the audio channel in Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) is your audio will not match up to the timeline of the other BiaB tracks. It takes time for your audio to get into the computer, flow through the computer operating system, enter Band-in-a-Box and get recorded. That's called latency and there is no way around it. That's why Band-in-a-Box is not a good tool for audio recording.
The workaround is to use an external audio interface with an internal mixer and a headphone jack. The mixer blends audio leaving the computer and audio entering the computer together. The mixer also compensates for latency so your audio matches the computer audio timeline so your audio is recorded correctly. The blended audio is sent to the audio interface headphone jack so you can correctly hear the computer audio and your audio.
The Zoom, Roland, TASCAM handheld recorders are great for spur of the moment ideas. Some of them can also serve as an external audio interface when connected to your computer.
Thanks Jim. I was trying to work out why my vocals recorded (for once) directly into BIAB were out of time with the backing tracks when I pulled them into Reaper. Normally I'd do the vocals straight into Reaper and no problem, but it never occurred to me that it was a BIAB issue. Now I know. I was blaming my new wireless mic setup for the latency. Of course that may have made the whole thing worse. I'll need to experiment.
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
<< That's called latency and there is no way around it. That's why Band-in-a-Box is not a good tool for audio recording. >>
I spoke with Jim about this statement and making some minor corrections.
Latency is a symptom that a setting needs adjustment and it's found under Audio Settings in the Record Audio button. A reason BIAB is not a good tool for audio recording is based on the quality of whatever driver and microphone being used and not latency.
<< That's called latency and there is no way around it. That's why Band-in-a-Box is not a good tool for audio recording. >>
I spoke with Jim about this statement and making some minor corrections.
Latency is a symptom that a setting needs adjustment and it's found under Audio Settings in the Record Audio button. A reason BIAB is not a good tool for audio recording is based on the quality of whatever driver and microphone being used and not latency.
I noticed on the screenshot you uploaded that the audio driver is set to MME - this is not a good driver type to use with regard to latency (although for playback it is fine and is the most compatible). ASIO is preferred, as it allows BIAB to bypass the Windows Audio subsystem, although it is possible to get good results using WAS, which is technically the newest driver type of the 3 available.
When using ASIO, it is usually possible to specify the buffer size used by the driver - this has a direct relation to latency. To set this buffer size, go to Options > Preferences > Audio, set the driver type to ASIO, then click the Audio Drivers button below that followed by ASIO Driver's Control Panel. If your sound card has an option to control buffer size, it should be shown here - reducing the buffer size reduces latency, but increases demand on the system, so not all computers are capable of the lowest buffer sizes. Since BIAB tends to use 44,100hz when using ASIO, a buffer size of 256 samples is just under 6 milliseconds of latency.
Good points Simon and thanks for jumping in. I always look forward to your posts.
I approached my 'test' song with the OP's purpose in mind. A quick, easy way to capture ideas without much set up to capture ideas while they're still fresh in the mind.
The Chord Chart was 16 bars. The style was a MIDI Style with the right feel, tempo and key for a fast generation. Choosing MME was purposeful because of it's reputation with latency.
Just as you noted, my BIAB program is set to MME for playback nearly all the time. If I get an idea while I'm using BIAB and I quickly want to record a fleeting idea, it's very likely BIAB will be set to MME at that time and I also have immediate access to the PC's on board mic. As you stated earlier that I'm recording to capture an idea and the sound quality isn't critical. Using the on-board mic with MME can be used with BIAB having the capability to adjust latency if it's an issue.
I bought a portable recorder for the purpose of grabbing ideas..... unfortunately, I could never get that to work for me. I have to be in the studio and purposefully working on the song.
So..... My suggestion is to buy 2 things. ( at a minimum )
1. A USB connected interface that runs true ASIO, and has phantom power.... 2. Any decent condenser mic. Don't buy a USB mic. You can find respectable mics that are condenser mics under $100.
Using this, with head phones, will give you exactly what you want at a minimal cost. Everything will be in sync and life will be good.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
If you are looking for a condenser mic that is really a good deal that will not break the bank look into the BM-800. This is what I use when recording vocals. Here is a good review:
Been watching YouTube videos about how to use the vintage Zoom H2 (which I KNOW I have--somewhere in the Mesozoic or Cretaceous layer of my house LOL), it looks to be able to do just what I need it to do, so I'm set on finding it and starting to use it to the fullest extent.
How I shamefully neglected it all this time I'll never get over.
Leo.. respectfully i would suggest a degree of caution re the old zoom. if you like your zoom; i would contact zoom support and see if the firmware (ie the internals) of your zoom need updateing as well enquire if you might need asio software driver update. IF you have problems, here is a list of usb audio interfaces below that pg users have found work well with pg products.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
The suggestion of condenser mics is good, however I typically prefer a decent dynamic mics over cheap condensers for a number of reasons - they're often less sensitive to plosives and sibilance, less sensitive to handling noise, and the frequency response curve tends to be more flattering to the voice. A Shure SM57 is a good example of a cheap dynamic mic that can sound better than most cheap condensers, although there is always some discussion/argument over which mic or type of mic is best.
Cheap condenser mics often have a boost in the high frequencies, which typically does not sound terribly nice. This is usually down to poor design - many cheap condensers copy the design of the Neumann K67 capsule which has a fairly harsh treble boost, as the capsule was designed to be paired with a mic circuit that has a corrective EQ to remove that treble boost - but most of those cheap condensers circuits do not have that corrective EQ, and considering that they typically use cheap parts, that hyped treble out of the condenser capsule can distort the mic circuit! And even worse, this can be the case on condenser mics up to $200-300! No problems like this on any dynamic mic!
That said, I have a fair amount of condensers in my personal collection, though they typically get less use than dynamics for me. Don't ask me what my favourite mic is, I have too many favourites!
When recording, a mic really shouldn't be handled IMO It should be mounted on a stand. That said I have used SM-57 and SM-58 with good results. I actually prefer an SM-57 on my vox and my friend Barry prefers an SM-58. Mainly because we've trained ourselves how to use them. Still much better with a decent preamp.
Heck, Michael Jackson used an SM58 on some of the Thriller tunes, obviously with good results. Still, for detail, a LDC can work wonders when you want that intimate, up close effect.
I remember one time when recording a new band and the vocalist was nervous about the big mic in front of him, we went to start recording him and he had us stop before his first line .. I asked "why?, you haven't sung any wrong notes yet!" His response; "I could here myself nervously scratching my leg" <grin>
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
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