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hello everyone,
until recently, I have only used a single hardware or sofware instrument at a time (either a Roland rompler or a gm2 soft synth compatible with BIAB)
during the covid however, I have purchased a few additional instruments to add to my setup and correct a few weaknesses of my single instrument
now I read music and technology magazines since 35 years but there is something that I have never seen adressed
since most romplers and soft synths now have their own main reverb what happens if you use several of them in a song ?
I know that reverb applied to a drum sound seems most of the time perceived as part of the sound itself (cue the success of the alesis SR16 drum machine)
and the same is also somewhat true if you use say, an amp string reverb to enrich your guitar sound
but what about other instruments ?
I have tried a few BIAB midi styles with the new Real drums track that was assigned to them and I did not like it
the various instruments simply did not "gel" with the drums sound
how do you solve this issue ?
I guess Real tracks are not always recorded in the same studio yet their mix is generally excellent
thanks in advance
Bernard Rasson
BIAB Audiophile 2021, BIAB Megapak 2015 (for midi-only projects), Cakewalk, Roland XV-5080, Roland Fantom XR, Aria AC60 Nylon Strings Guitar, Almansa Spanish Guitar, Fender Stratocaster Japan, two laptops
Je parle français
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I'm not entirely sure what the question is here, but a few thoughts:
I don't think we know if the RealDrums are recorded all in the same place, but I'm guessing they are not. My drummer has his own studio and produces tracks for clients located anywhere. He's played for Blood, sweat and Tears and was with Spyro Gyra for 14 years.
BIAB has some adjustments for reverb, both in the mixer and globally to determine the range that the mixer moves through. In other words, if you apply maximum reverb in the mixer, that could mean many things. The default is a little too much, in my opinion, and the first thing I always do is turn off almost all of the reverb on the drum and bass tracks.
Now guitar is a different animal, because they offer what they call Direct instruments, where you can bring up the guitar with NO reverb, and shape it as you like. You have this option in the Audiophile version.
One request we have made is for drum 'stems', in other words, to be able to have multiple tracks for each part of a drum kit. That might be possible in a future release.
Does any of this help?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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yes, thank you, this is very useful
I wonder though, if pgmusic will be able to offer these options for every track since the audiophile 2 TB hard disk is already brimming with data
I will try to rephrase my main question: since I use mostly hardware, if I mix together an Integra guitar, a Korg Krome piano and a Ketron SD1000 string patch, each with its own reverb, will it sound wrong for the listener ???
Bernard Rasson
BIAB Audiophile 2021, BIAB Megapak 2015 (for midi-only projects), Cakewalk, Roland XV-5080, Roland Fantom XR, Aria AC60 Nylon Strings Guitar, Almansa Spanish Guitar, Fender Stratocaster Japan, two laptops
Je parle français
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I will try to rephrase my main question: since I use mostly hardware, if I mix together an Integra guitar, a Korg Krome piano and a Ketron SD1000 string patch, each with its own reverb, will it sound wrong for the listener ??? Howdy Bernard.... Well....to this listener... yes. Even too much of one reverb patch just washes out the sound of the instrument. Especially, vocals. To me...a "reverb" patch allows us to put the performance of the band in the same listening environment that the song/composition calls for. Be it hall, room, plate...whatever. In fact....I've grown to prefer putting my 'reverb patch' of choice on the final mix....the band is playing in the same venue 'environment'. But...that's just me, it's all subjective. Hope that helps....have a great day.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 06/21/21 09:14 AM.
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thank you very much
I guess it might depend a lot of the kind of music you're trying to do
If you have a new wave track or a Pink Floyd-ish song reverb and others effets participate in creating the "dreamy" quality
on the other hand if you're trying to emulate a 5 piece country/folk band then obviously something won't sound right
for something in-between though I guess it depends
I am not working with vocals yet
other opinions ? keep them coming !
I was a teenager in the 80's thus I might be less sensitive than other people regarding heavily produced records (cue huge snare sound ;-) )
Bernard Rasson
BIAB Audiophile 2021, BIAB Megapak 2015 (for midi-only projects), Cakewalk, Roland XV-5080, Roland Fantom XR, Aria AC60 Nylon Strings Guitar, Almansa Spanish Guitar, Fender Stratocaster Japan, two laptops
Je parle français
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As you have noted, it is going to vary from song to song and sound to sound.
Best you can do is use your ears ..
Normally most synths have a way to turn down the reverb.
A lot of times it can be via a knob or a Control Change.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I concur with rharv. Different sources with different reverb could be a problem, and I generally put reverb on last, to the final mix, or even one step later, at mastering.
I did not fully understand the question, but I think we are getting it right this time.
Yes, the storage of separated drum kits could be enormous on top of the already huge 1.6 TB audiophile version.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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wow, another user with 20000+ posts ! I am impressed
I do use BIAB since the Atari ST version 30 years ago but in a very basic way
yes, the Ketron SD1000 is a nice, very compact module your can carry almost everywhere but it does lack a Reverb knob
Bernard Rasson
BIAB Audiophile 2021, BIAB Megapak 2015 (for midi-only projects), Cakewalk, Roland XV-5080, Roland Fantom XR, Aria AC60 Nylon Strings Guitar, Almansa Spanish Guitar, Fender Stratocaster Japan, two laptops
Je parle français
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thank you again Matt !
another useful advice
by the way, Sound on Sound magazine from UK did an interview with mixer Bob Clearmountain a few months ago. This is the guy responsible for some records with lots of lush reverbs, delays an so on such as Roxy Music's Avalon. Of course this is not to the taste of everyone
best regards
Bernard Rasson
BIAB Audiophile 2021, BIAB Megapak 2015 (for midi-only projects), Cakewalk, Roland XV-5080, Roland Fantom XR, Aria AC60 Nylon Strings Guitar, Almansa Spanish Guitar, Fender Stratocaster Japan, two laptops
Je parle français
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I guess sound effects could be compared to spices and sauces in cooking: not too little, not too much ! ;-)
Bernard Rasson
BIAB Audiophile 2021, BIAB Megapak 2015 (for midi-only projects), Cakewalk, Roland XV-5080, Roland Fantom XR, Aria AC60 Nylon Strings Guitar, Almansa Spanish Guitar, Fender Stratocaster Japan, two laptops
Je parle français
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Toby Mountain mixed my CD.
My guiding principle is to turn up the effect until I can hear the difference, then back it off by half.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I guess sound effects could be compared to spices and sauces in cooking: not too little, not too much ! ;-) .. and no two tastes agree all the time ..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Personally, I don't think there is much of a problem in mixing "pre-reverbed" instruments together. I used to use a single hardware synth module for all my midi signals. Each one had it's own reverb setting as default. So every track had a somewhat different level and "type" of reverb and they seemed to me to play nicely with each other and more-or-less mimic what goes on in a multi-track recording session.
When rendering real-tracks I pretty much always keep the reverb already on the various tracks. Honestly, that is at least in part why I became enamored with them in the first place, and I can't pretend I know better. In DAW, I may apply another reverb plugin to certain tracks for a more "floaty" feel, but generally speaking, I don't--unless it is part of a multi-processing plug-in's preset.
Like Matt said, the place to bring them together (at least in DAW) is in the master/main mix before the mastering plugin. My own "rule of thumb" is to apply an overall reverb until it becomes obvious as an effect...then back it down.
If you are talking about producing midi driven audio tracks for mixing, you might want to play with the settings if possible to lessen the reverb a touch...but the only way to know for sure is to just do it and see if you like the results. Those may not be to your taste, and may not sound like you want them to...but "a mess"? I don't think so.
Last edited by Tangmo; 06/21/21 04:36 PM.
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thank you so much Matt and Tangmo :-)
Bernard Rasson
BIAB Audiophile 2021, BIAB Megapak 2015 (for midi-only projects), Cakewalk, Roland XV-5080, Roland Fantom XR, Aria AC60 Nylon Strings Guitar, Almansa Spanish Guitar, Fender Stratocaster Japan, two laptops
Je parle français
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