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Hi, I am trying to learn about Tod's Pedal Steel so I put together a few chords in BIAB using _IVORY.STY as a basis with: 1122: Bass 2050: Piano NashClassicWaltzSw^6 : Drums 829: Guitar 990: Guitar Then got on the keyboard for a little while and put the melody into Kontakt with Tod's Pedal Steel. Played around a bit to get the harmonies (chording), slides, tremolo and foot pedal bits (I haven't got it quite right but I'll learn as I go). Anyway a little waltz on Pedal Steel https://soundcloud.com/reevant/i-vary
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A lovely country waltz! Very convincing pedal steel. 
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Thanks David, of the pedal steel synths I’ve tried I find Tod’s is probably the most versatile IMHO. As with all of the pedal steels there is a lot to it but Tod’s approach makes sense to me.
Thanks again
Tony
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That's a tough instrument to play and it sounds really good here, Tony. This is a cool country waltz, like the one's where you used to hear, "Ok, this one's a lady's choice."
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Thanks Marty, yes there is a fair bit in getting the steel to do its thing. Tod the creator of this instrument set up a really good tool bar arrangement for Reaper every lick on different strings have a different velocity. So there are 4 sets of notes (four sounds per note for most notes) creating a heap of flexibility (more than my knowledge being a simple guitarist).
I thank Tod Stillwell for making the the toolbar available to me. Without the toolbar it would be a lot more work.
Thanks again Marty
Last edited by Teunis; 06/23/21 01:31 AM.
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Hello, 'Teunis'...
Your melody is so sweet-sounding to my ears that I could imagine the notes being sung as lyrics.
It's a fine tune for dancing, too.
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
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Certainly a great effort. Clearly there is a lot of potential.
Interesting selection of instruments. I wonder if the pedal steel was played an octave higher how much different it would sound.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Thanks Bluage, it is a simple melody basically just what comes out. I agree it would be a nice little song easily sung. I’ll have to think of words but that’s not my forte. Thanks once again.
Thanks VT, I agree it is a bit low. I was thinking of taking it up to G from C. I’m not a keyboard player so I usually tend to play stuff in C whilst noodling about. (Shows how lazy I am). In this case I left this in C so I could write the chording quicker. (Lazy once again). I avoid taking the keyboard itself up as it can become annoying when I leave it there. Thanks yet again.
Tony
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This is the best most realistic Pedal Steel that I have ever heard. Excellent song to showcase it.
It sounds like you have mastered this VSTi!
I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia.
She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me!
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Nice work, really nice melody too.
Seems a little odd to have the melody a little left of centre in the mix though.
Well done Mr. Stillwell too.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Thanks Mario, yes this is a Kontakt Library. Basically what Tod has done is capture every note on every string 4 times (for most notes 2 times for the lower notes). He has then created a Kontakt Key Map using velocity for each note depending on what string and which sample. It is very complex but using Tod’s ToolBar in Reaper becomes very manageable. You then have 4 CC lanes to set the “pitch” the slide of a note then also 4 CC lanes for the Volume. He has it set up that you select the note and CC number it places the CC message just ahead of the note. See the tutorials here https://todsvirtualinstruments.com/tods-midi-pedal-steel-guitar-tutorials/ The tutorials are not that long but gives a great insight. It really gives control. Thanks again Mario Thanks Ray, it has been an interesting process and there is still improvements to happen. (Improvements continue until you destroy the song). I put the track about where I have the pedal steel sitting in other mixes (using the BIAB Realtrack). Thanks again Ray VT suggested I lift the track. I did a quick test lifting it an octave or even to G makes it sound a bit like cats on a fence. Putting it up to E sounds better. But, in order to lift it I think it best to go back through and reset the various velocities (string and position settings). It won’t take that long. I should also use attack time in some cases rather than volume to control how the notes come in. A bit more thinking yet. Tony
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Very pleasant!! Always loved the pedal steel, and BIAB does have a lot of great ones too! Take care. Greg
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Thanks Greg, I have to agree when it comes to the RealTracks Pedal Steel. I reckon I have them in over 50% of my backing tracks (I love them). Chasing a pedal steel actually came from this. I wanted a way to generate parts particularly lead ins. To allow me to know when to start a song and get ready I often use the last 4 bars or so as basis for an intro. It is nice to have a bit of a melody at this point.
I find trying to blend into the RealTrack pedal very hard to match. With this pedal I can get close. Probably close enough to get away with it as most of the folk I play to are quite aged. So much so I’m sure some of them are not sure of “why that man is standing there with a guitar. Can you speak up a bit dearie”.
Thanks again Greg
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
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Very cool. I love me some steel guitar. That's actually the reason I bought BB in the first place many years ago.
I looked at Tod's site.... that seems to be a very capable steel vst. They're getting easier to use and sounding so much better than the early ones. Still looks like a lot of editing to get the perfect sound and a realistic sound. From watching a few of the tutorial videos, you have a capable tool but now you gotta spend the time to learn it and use it. Still.... very cool.
I like what you did with this. My crits are that you have a fairly large number of third conflicts where you have a major and a minor third struggling to be dominate and neither one wins. Aside from that... loved this tune.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Love the sound and feel of this! Nice job!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Tony, I'm impressed. I love me some pedal steel guitar and it sounds like you're well on your way to becoming proficient with Tod's steel. There are not many steel virtual instruments out there. +++ Tod's +++ seems to be top of the heap for pedal steel guitar and +++ The STEEL +++ for lap steel. I'm sure there are others but those are the two I'm aware of. I've looked at the tutorial videos for Tod's and just can not understand the interface. Velocity regions are pretty common so using them I understand. But I haven't seen a good demonstration of how to apply other articulations like the bends up or bends down created by pedal action. As another example how do you select palm mute or harmonics? It would be nice if a user manual was available for download from the website. On the other hand I completely understand the STEEL user interface and the manual is available for download. Having said that, I have neither product but am very interested in both. I believe sample based virtual instruments require an understanding of velocity regions and articulations to create any kind of realistic music.
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Thanks Herb, you are right about that. The main issue there is the the string and samples used (also volume due to velocity). VT suggested it needed to be a bit higher. I found if I went up an octave or even up from C to G it sounded very cat like probably due to the chording. I moved it up to E this made a difference. I then went back through the string, sample and volume (lowering usually the lower harmony). I’ve got to get next weeks “happy hour” set together (I do about an hour show) and then I’ll get back to it. Thanks again.
Thanks HearToLearn
Thanks Jim, on Tod’s tutorials site they do a really good tutorial on the slides. Like most of these things it is not until you actually get doing it that it becomes clearer. Basically there are 5 CC lanes assign to controlling the “slides”. What happens is you select the note you are sliding either up or down. Then assign it a CC lane and the number of semitones in the slide. Then in the CC you set the direction (up or down) and position. To slide up you start the slide at 0 (the bottom of the CC lane) and go to the mid point value 64. To slide down you start at 64 and drop it to 0. It is possible to go more complex by calculating the CC level. The documentation provides a guide. Basically it does something similar to using the “pitch wheel” on a controller.
For chords. When you select the CC to be the script moves the cursor a few ticks. You then move the next note to the new point and select another CC lane and the number of semitones needed for the slide.
Seems complex but not so. However the ToolBar to make it work is really designed to work in Reaper. Whilst the Pedal Steel will work in other DAWs one would have to do a lot of work. There are many Reaper Scripts behind the sevens making it work.
However by learning this I learnt a bit about the scripting and created some scripts to make using the Capo Setting of AmpleSound guitars easier to set.
The other advantage of Reaper is the ability to create “Note Name Maps” that allow you to name key switches and CC lanes. Similar to Drum Maps in Cakewalk. This makes using many instruments far easier. They are a simple text file so you create one for the instrument and save the instrument together with the key map as a track template. Next time just load the template all the names are there. It is also possible to have the details show on the midi notes.
I feel like I should start with “in the beginning was the word”
Anyway thanks again Jim.
For others I’m being a bit long winded because some people like to know how things are achieved using MIDI. The processes used here can be used to control many VST INSTRUMENTS. The biggest limitation is usually your own imagination and faith in yourself.
My thoughts
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 06/24/21 11:03 AM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
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Nicely done. I like it.
Rob4580
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Thanks Bob, it was an interesting little project. I’m now cleaning it up a bit. (Changing key from C to E, rearranging some of the strings (samples) and also altering some of the note attack times (trying to make it smoother)). As per suggestions made by several forum members.
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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Hi, I am trying to learn about Tod's Pedal Steel so I put together a few chords in BIAB using _IVORY.STY as a basis with: 1122: Bass 2050: Piano NashClassicWaltzSw^6 : Drums 829: Guitar 990: Guitar Then got on the keyboard for a little while and put the melody into Kontakt with Tod's Pedal Steel. Played around a bit to get the harmonies (chording), slides, tremolo and foot pedal bits (I haven't got it quite right but I'll learn as I go). Anyway a little waltz on Pedal Steel https://soundcloud.com/reevant/i-vary Aah, good one Teunis, and I want to thank you for buying my Pedal Steel, you did it real justice. Here's steel instrumental I used for a demo. I saw David Hartley playing it YouTube and decided it would make a great video. The video is actually David Hartley's hands playing the steel, I recorded the video of just his hands playing so I could see where he was on the neck, and when I got it all done I was amazed at how well my own recording fit the video. https://youtu.be/j_Ypn79rt_sThis is also a video I captured on YouTube, of Jim Bob Gairrett playing a bunch of stuff he made up. Here again I use my steel to play exactly what he played. I had the opportunity to talk to Jim Bob on the phone and he couldn't believe I could do that with midi. https://youtu.be/v0SuOuMRcyMThis is my website, I created all the music using midi instruments in Kontakt. https://todsvirtualinstruments.com/
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