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Thanks everyone... I Just dowmloaded and tried out Kontact Player & Komplete Start...
Impressive... Right now I'm using my old Yamaha Midi Keyboard as a controller, but I'm looking at maybe bundleing one of the NI S-series Controller Keyboardss, with the full Komplete package. Any thoughts..? I wonder when the Upgrade prices will be on sale?
Last edited by bloc-head; 06/22/21 01:17 PM.
Bandcamp Win-11; BiaB-2026 Audiophile
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Well... lots of good suggestions in the previous comments.
I'd start with Native Instruments Kontakt. If you want a good starting point, and money isn't really an issue, I'd suggest the Komplete package from NI. Last time I looked, it had Kontakt and somewhere close to 10+ other synths. All with different characteristics and a ton of virtual instruments and sounds. In addition, there are easily hundreds of third party vendors who make unique sound libraries that only work with Kontakt. You not only get the basic orchestral and band instruments but you get a bunch of soundscapes, and other sounds that go into what it sounds like you're wanting to do.
In my humble opinion, you can not go wrong using NI as a starting point. They have a huge and ever expanding library of sounds, it is relatively affordable compared to other synths and libraries on the market, and the most important thing is that everything they have sounds good.
Many years ago, I picked up Komplete and have never regretted it. Huge bass synths, drums and percussion synths, soundscapes...
I have a few other synth libraries.... East West, Miroslav, and a few other ones but the Komplete package is my go to synth when I need something unique.
As far as something sounding dated.... I think it's more a factor of how it's used vs the actual sound. No argument with any of that. I went with Komplete as my starter—just had more bang for the buck at the time and included Kontakt, of course. This was the year that I upgraded to KOMPLETE 13 ULTIMATE Collector's Edition With the sale on right now, it was the same price as adding just the full Symphony Strings that I'd been wanting a long time. .. my only regret is that I don't write music that can use it to its fullest. I hear you there. Does anyone? Can anyone? I wonder when the Upgrade prices will be on sale? This is the first time in a year and a half that Komplete Upgrades have been on sale—none last year (only add-ons). 50% upgrades don't come along very often. SAVE WITH A SCORCHING HALF-PRICE SUMMER SALE Summer of Sound is back … until June 30th
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ALL. SOME FURTHER THOUGHTS.
(from a previous life where i was involved in tech marketing strategies. i'm a "cat"..lol. )
if you think about it , pg could implement an additional major revenue stream strategy.....as follows.
1. reduce "band in a box" prices a "bit" to get more users who later on buy the very sophisticated......and complete........
2. "ORCHESTRA IN A BOX". see where i'm coming from with this ? thus an enhanced revenue stream. ie a full blown orch lib.
----------------------------------------------------------
already some orchestra type instruments eg cello /harp/trumpet etc etc are there as RT's.
so obviously pg has access to session musicians.
thus pg could develope their own very user friendly ORCHESTRA LIB fully integrated with biab and realband etc.
moi, for one, wouldnt look elsewhere if i had a "kick A**" orch lib.
i'm not talking a basic lib...but a "knock your socks off" "rock em sock em "lib.
ie an amazeing orch lib. where people go "ultra wow".
now LET ME ADD FURTHER...if anyone would like to read one of my wishlists in the bb wishlist forum...imagine now that bb/rb had "film scene" markers. think music for picture.
thus bb/rb could be used as a sketchpad for such.
(i'm sure some people do this today in a reduced way. possibly useing the bb feature "layers"...to denote music sections.)
(ps..look at pipelines great bars view pic sometime in my wishlist. i suggested tabs in a dialog.. for film scene markers could be addded. ie instead of a label saying verse1 or chorus3....it could be scene 14 marker or scene 98 marker whatever name user wished etc etc.)
given i had a complete amazeing pg orch lib , i wouldnt have to worry searching all over for added libs like i am currently. tho i could still do that if i wished of course. if the pg orch lib was optimised to be resource/cpu friendly (like pg echo/chorus plug in)
BONUS.
just an idea. and possibly another pg revenue stream.
so now a 2 tier product. band in a box and orch in a box.
oldmuso
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 06/22/21 11:36 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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"1. reduce "band in a box" prices a "bit" to get more users who later on buy the very sophisticated......and complete........
The Audiophile version is $669 for a first-time buyer. That seems a reasonable price for everything you get. BIAB has no competitor - it occupies a niche that is unique. I find it hard to believe they can sell it for the price they charge. For $129 (The 'Pro' package) you can get BIAB, REALBAND, and 500 RealTracks.
2. "ORCHESTRA IN A BOX". see where i'm coming from with this ? thus an enhanced revenue stream. ie a full blown orch lib."
A full-blown orchestra? Timpani, French Horns, Bassoons, Violins, etc? I already have Orch samples; Miroslav, Dimension Pro, Garritan and several others and BIAB handles them admirably. Were I doing sound for film, I would be using professional orchestral samples.
Regards,
Bob
Last edited by 90 dB; 06/23/21 05:05 AM.
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90db..
maybe i didnt express myself clearly.
there are lots of people out there that dont own the type of nice orch libs you own.
OR they cant afford to make a huge investment in orch libs that some hi end recording studios and/or arrangers can .
the latter type of user haveing the significant revenue streams/income of many thousands/tens of thousands monthly that allows them the funds to spend on AAA top line large orch and sample libs. unlike the smaller project studio tier of users which often dont have such big budgets to spend. my concern is for the "little guy"
with limited budget who cant afford the hi end libs.
i'm sure some advanced users of orch/sample libs have invested several thousands and even lots more.
(tens of thousands ?)
an analogy might be like moi..lol that some people can only afford golf fees at the town golf course rather than the high end golf club.
i was purely suggesting another possible revenue stream for pg with ITS OWN PG PRODUCED ORCH LIB that pg users could tap into at a reasonable price.
possibly also a side benefit being tight technical integration tween pg's orch lib and software products there might be ease of use efficiencies for the user realised as well as possibly lower latencies experienced by users that might not own the most powerfull computers.
in my case in this scenario i would not need to use third party players...
i could just use the pg integrated lib.
(btw i was NOT inferring that pg's current pricing is over the top. eg audiophile etc. its fair imho. i was just suggesting alternatives. in product pricing/product marketing there are often 2 approaches.
one being low prices sell to millions of users OR higher prices sell to fewer customers. difference tween a hamburger sold by a chain or beef medallions sold in a hi end eatery. lol.)
best
oldmuso
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 06/23/21 06:40 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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maybe i didnt express myself clearly. no i think we understand clearly. the argument that prices should be lower is never valid. it's the market that decides and if a company charges too much then no one buys and they go out of business. never using capitalization makes long rambling posts hard to read just saying
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
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Mike.
jeesh..i think some history of myself as a long time user of pg products will show how ive been a big pg proponent over the years.
i hope just the following 2 points illustrate with clarity how much i care about pg's continued success in its software niche.
which is one reason why i suggested a new revenue stream from pg creating its own orch lib product.
1. case point 1. powertraks.
ive lost count the number of hi end and other users/song creators i used to show this product to ages ago; and over the years. and watch their eyes "bug out" after they had spent loads of money on their particular daw software.
(haveing said that i dont consider myself as expert as rharv the jedi master imho of the product and other powertraks users.)
2. case point 2. biab.
ive also lost count of the number of music people ive told of/turned onto biab over the years and how it can help in the song creation process etc.
i would like a dollar for each time ive told a musician about biab... or a "snooty friend" would say "oh i heard from a friend it was elevator music ".
so i would sit them down and show this was untrue.
once again i would enjoy seeing the looks on their faces.
(again mike i dont consider myself a jedi master/expert of the product like a joanne cooper or a charlie fogle. )
in summary mike. i'm a big supporter and spread the word about pg products. BUT that doesnt preclude me from makeing what i hope are sensible feature wishes and comments on how to improve the products.
i sincerely believe, if done right ; a new product called the "pg orchestra/samples lib" could be another pg revenue generator, and fill a nice market niche, particularly with small new/future project studios that have not invested in orch/sample libs.
every happines.
oldmuso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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oldmuso, I understand your point and to a degree I agree with you. But I would like to see PGM fix all the bugs in BiaB and develop the VSTi further prior to adding new products. YMMV PS - I am a Jedi. My real name is Obi One Cannoli 
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Mario.
re Fixes. i must agree with you of course.
in fact let me add (and its in my wishlist posts) i'm doing a very complex song in biab right now where..instead of pushes within a bar i would love to have a "slide" flexible feature instead of exporting a piece of audio to an editor or a daw and repositioning a clip that way.
(btws...i LOVE all food italian..and have spent many pleasant times in the past in Italy... they really know their food. )
anyways your the midi jedi as far as i'm concerned.
best
oldmuso
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Mario.
re Fixes. i must agree with you of course.
in fact let me add (and its in my wishlist posts) i'm doing a very complex song in biab right now where..instead of pushes within a bar i would love to have a "slide" flexible feature instead of exporting a piece of audio to an editor or a daw and repositioning a clip that way.
(btws...i LOVE all food italian..and have spent many pleasant times in the past in Italy... they really know their food. )
anyways your the midi jedi as far as i'm concerned.
best
oldmuso
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Regarding the cost of things.... they are priced according to the quality you get in the sounds mostly. Better quality stuff has multiple sampling layers and that takes time and costs more to do. I used to grab a lot of free stuff.... samples and especially the SFZ stuff. Yeah, it was better then the default Microsoft player, but the samples had a lot to be desired. That's one reason when I built my DAW many years ago, I didn't bother transferring SFZ or the sample library I had accumulated for it to the new DAW.
Years ago in the Cakewalk forums, there were a variety of folks from all sorts of backgrounds, musically speaking. In one of the forums, folks would post on the new software they had found and especially on the greatest and latest "no-brainer' deals going on including when companies like East West was giving away.... yes as in FREE, a version of their software. Essentially, if you are in the right forums and keep up with what is going on, you can snag freebies from companies you normally have to pay a lot of money to in order to get their VST's and sample libraries. NI does a number of freebies from time to time but you gotta look for them and act quickly.
I think my Mirislav and E/W synth samplers are part of those freebies from years past.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 06/25/21 08:31 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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All.
this has been a very informative thread.
and i really DO appreciate everyones input and comments/suggestions. cos this whole libs topic ive
realised is my achilles heel.
ive been doing a lot of further reaearch.
i'm used to banging out mostly my silly old rok and sometimes comedy songs with an occasional ballad as the mood strikes me. but i want to challenge myself more.
my apologies for asking some further questions and clarifications.
as follows...
1. with regard to major tv and films what are the major orchestral and other libs people use ? it would seem there is an array of suppliers ?.
maybe 2 dozen in total ?
who are the major suppliers ?
ive heard of for example east west and vienna. others ?
is there a list somewhere i can explore further to save troubling you good people further ?
ive used google but cant pin a definitive list down.
2. how do the major composers for film and tv in useing a big name lib ensure "their finished sound/composition is unique". ?
this is something i'm trying but failing to understand. ie if all the top composers are useing all the top libs...how do they..the pro's ensure "uniqueness" ?
OR is this not an issue ?
3. with all the big libs at their disposal and big film budgets for example....how do the top composers deal with the time needed for going through a ton of samples to find their "golden nuggets" for their project ?
for example some composers must have terabytes and terabytes to go through ? i'm just trying to understand their process.
ie do they methodically go through libs like i spend days trying to find the best biab RT's/"nuggets" that might fit a new song of mine ?
how do major tv/film composers find their "kapow" or their breakthrough sound moments ? where they finally rest their heads on their pillows at night and go
"i did it"...and they are happy with their work ?
4. what friendly user forums are there where composers for major film/tv hang out ? where i might learn more ?
thanks for any further input.
best
oldmuso
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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A
4. what friendly user forums are there where composers for major film/tv hang out ? where i might learn more ?
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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For those looking for an excellent orchestra VSTi East-West is having a half price sale. http://www.soundsonline.com/symphonic-orchestra
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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