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Just caught a news flash on TV. One commentator said the US is a country divided. Well my thoughts on that are as follows:
The US was divided over the Civil War. The US was divided about WW2. It was divided about Viet Nam. It was divided about Iraq. And so it goes.
Just keep in mind that difference of opinion doesn't bring division in the true sense of the word.
The US will survive this, and move on. It always has.
Good luck with the new reality.
Glenn
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Glenn,
Yes, the Senate bill has passed the House. Now, they have to send some sort of reconciliation bill back to the Senate in the hopes that the Senate will pass it. However, since the Senate Democrats have lost their 'supermajority' there is no way for them to stop a fillibuster from the Republicans.
EVERYTHING about this bill ASSUMES that the reconciliation package being sent to the Senate will pass. Unless it does, then everything that our Congressional Budget Office, and the assumptions that the House Democrats have tried to foist off on the American public, will be WRONG!
Right now, we have NO idea what this is going to really cost us, and what the true numbers are all about.
And that is VERY scary.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Journeyman
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All my relatives live in Canada, and I don't see that being a bad thing there, well maybe some but we need help with our system. It reminds me when my Mother was dying of cancer in the late 90's, the church came to the house and said you can't come to church anymore because you are not paying your dues.......I told them to shove it up there !@# and get the #$%^ out of my house!!!!!!!!!!! They looked at me like I was nuts!!!! I will not go further because you can read and believe and do right at home.
Critter
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Its one step in a long process, and the first step took quite a long time. I'll be surprised if the Senate goes any faster.
There is no change yet, just a step in that direction.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Our media is on this morning about the US being the only developed country that didn't have a universal health care program, and where insurance companies could cut people off for being sick, which of course was the reason they bought a policy in the first place.
As I live here I don't care, but always thought the optics were way wrong on this issue.
As someone who basically retired at 53 for health reasons (though my pension is pretty high), I would be totally broke and destitute if I was an American Citizen, so I can at least be thankful for that.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Oh and I'm pleased to report the specialist I saw last week decided it was a 95 percent chance it's fibromyalgia and started me on a new drug. I've slept through 3 nights after years of waking at 3 a.m. and staying up, (4 hours a night, I though all old people did that), and I can almost walk without pain, which is new. The drug is covered by the Fire Dept. retirees program until 65, when the government starts charging 6 bucks a prescription. (3 months of pills per refill). That will be 40 bucks a month more than I pay now, well I do have a $10 per year deductible which I don't get...
John Conley
Musica est vita
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According to the news last night that once Obama signed the Bill today it immediately goes into effect. The financial issues were pulled out in order to get the votes. The only thing left to haggle over is how to pay for it but the benefits start today.
Does anyone know the status of the portion that will allow purchase of Health Ins. across State lines?
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A companion package making a series of changes sought by House Democrats to the larger bill, which already passed the Senate, was approved 220-211. The fix-it bill will now go to the Senate, where debate is expected to begin as early as Tuesday. Senate Democrats hope to approve it unchanged and send it directly to Obama, though Republicans intend to attempt parliamentary objections that could change the bill and require it to go back to the House.
Sen. John McCain said Monday morning that Democrats have not heard the last of the health care debate, and said he was repulsed by "all this euphoria going on."I don't think its going to be signed to law very quickly. Article here- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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The basic problem with the health bill is that although it's a step in the right direction it doesn't go nearly far enough in addressing the huge costs of a private insurance system which is inherently wasteful and encourages profit making over health care provision at a reasonable cost.
Health insurance companies in the USA spend almost $350 billion on finding ways to avoid coverage and deny claims to those insured. The Bill at least goes some way to discouraging this (in about 4 years time) but the fear is that companies will find legal loopholes to siedstep the new laws about pre-existing health conditions.
For example if the companies boost their premiums to keep profits high in the face of this then the estimated $940 billion cost to the taxpayer will increase accordingly because the government has decreed a maximum personal liability and will subsidise the remainder of the costs.
But for the nay sayers once again it seems that its ok them if they get ripped off and denied by insurers as long as it isn't government spending their bucks. You pay a very high price indeed for your philosophical sacred cows it seems.
Regards
Alan
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Quote:
The church came to the house and.....I told them to shove it up there !@# and get the #$%^ out of my house!!!!!!!!!!!
My sentiments on the church exactly Critter. I had to practically throw a minister out of my father's hospital room when the delusional paid advertisement for organized superstition tried to "save" my father on his death bed. You can't even die in peace without them trying to sell their viewpoint.
Keith
2026 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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I note that the Federal Government runs Amtrak, which is always on the verge of bankruptcy; Medicare - going broke; Medicaid - going broke; Social Security - going broke; Post Office - losing money; national debt - skyrocketing out of control...and we are asked to trust these inept powermongers with our health care needs.
Yeah, sure.
Note that Canadian politico Danny Williams came to the US for heart surgery. Not that the Canadian system has incompetent people, but that the wait might have had some very negative effects. Ditto for the son of Mitt Romney, who was flown back to the US for tests due to the delay up north.
I pay way too much for health care insurance, and it's going up all the time. However, my family and I get the fastest and best treatment in the world for all that money. True, we have had to work out the finger-pointing between the health providers and my HMO on various occasions, but that frustration is a small price to pay for the exceptional service we receive. My wife recently had to have several byopsies and procedures, including surgeries and out-patient treatments, and these were scheduled and performed within a few days instead of weeks.
I'm all for lowering costs and getting more people insured, but I have no confidence in the nincompoops in D.C. to do it rationally. And it's not about any given political party, as I have always been a registered independent. It's about the level of hubris and greed and corruption in our current crop of national politicians, regardless of party.
I have a feeling that a reckoning is coming in 2010, and maybe a bigger reckoning in 2012. It's high time for a general political purging,
Fire, the wheel, and the I IV V -- foundations of civilization.
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I note in your last two posts, axegrinder, that you are against the insurance company large profits, yet are also against amtrack and other agencies running on shoestring budgets (close to bankruptcy).
After reading your first post I thought you wanted the insurance companies run with little to no profit, but you kind of threw me in the second post when you complained that government controlled entities are run that way..
I understand your concerns, as many of us do, but it seemed slightly contradictory in the two posts.
I don't think Amtrack or the Postal system are making huge amounts of money that is being wasted, which is what you imply.
Both the Amtrack and Post Office examples are mainly from loss of use by majority of the people. Email and airplanes.
However, there is not a lot of call to cut these services yet. Especially postal, it is ridiculously cheap to send mail still considering the work to get it from point A to point B.
Looking for more explanation..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
I have a feeling that a reckoning is coming in 2010, and maybe a bigger reckoning in 2012. It's high time for a general political purging,
it's going to be an interesting election for sure
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Quote:
Our media is on this morning about the US being the only developed country that didn't have a universal health care program, and where insurance companies could cut people off for being sick, which of course was the reason they bought a policy in the first place.
This is somewhat of a straw man argument in which a scenario consisting of only some of the facts is constructed so it can be easily knocked down. Here's how American health care (used to) work:
1) the idea is to get coverage and keep it. That way, there is maximum participation so losses are distributed over a very broad base.
2) In this system, the worst thing would be for nobody to participate until they found out they had a dread disease, then try to buy into the benefits without also having paid into the broad base of support. Such a situation would quickly fill up with abusers and go bankrupt because the value subtractors would far outnumber the value adders.
3) therefore, as long as you maintain insurance, you cannot be denied coverage. This rewards those who help the system work the way it is supposed to work. It is false to say that people are just randomly denied benefits.
4) the problem arises when you lose coverage, because then the insurance company treats you the same as somebody who declined coverage until he found out about a dread disease. They can exclude any pre-existing conditions in that case to minimize abuse.
5) to offset this, our system offers COBRA insurance to help people maintain coverage when they lose coverage they had through an employer. Theoretically, this empowers people to make sure they continue to have coverage and therefore cannot be hit with pre-existing condition clause.
6) but people often decline the COBRA insurance for a variety of reasons. Then, after their coverage expires, they learn they can't get it reinstated with the same coverage they had formerly. But it is worth mentioning that this is in the control of the insured. When coverage totally lapses, it is because the insured allowed it for one reason or another. (usually lack of funds due to unemployment)
Like most systems, it covers many bases, but not perfectly. All in all, it is a fairly common-sense system in terms of how capitalism works. It generates enough income to provide the promised service, plus profit for the company. (It could be better regulated so the profits are not excessive IMHO)
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Danny Millions (he's worth more), did go to the US for surgery.
Turns out the same surgery was available all over Canada, and in an emergency, right away.
Danny has a condo a few blocks from the hospital, and has told tall tales from the day he was born. He's the biggest BS'er one ever met.
Nothing suits him, and the People in Newfoundland love to hate Canada, despite all the billions we put in over the years.
Now that they have offshore oil revenues, they want that income to be excluded from provincial benefit programs, for Ontario used to send them lots of cash in equalization payments.
The only reason Danny flew to the US for the surgery boils down to this. You have to stay close to the hospital after the surgery. It was winter. It was bad weather here. And the condo, remember?
If you ever knew the amounts the insurance lobbies give to politicians, and the amount they spend on telling you how bad public health care is, you could take that cash and all get cosmetic surgery.
The other problem is how well they control the media.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I don't really have time to get into this now.
Health Care Reform = Good Thing!
This bill and the way it was passed = VERY BAD THING.
Not Paying Attention to the wishes of the American Public = Bound to get you unelected if you're lucky, and shot from some pissed off citizen if you're not (No, not me, I'll do my speaking in the voting booth)
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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And what's with Texas? Re-write all the text books, get rid of anything not extreme Republican, and deny anything Democratic or whatever.
How come there's a public school system? Y'all better ditch that fast.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
The basic problem with the health bill is that although it's a step in the right direction it doesn't go nearly far enough in addressing the huge costs of a private insurance system which is inherently wasteful and encourages profit making over health care provision at a reasonable cost.
It is worth mentioning that in a capitalistic system, income generation and jobs are both desirable parts of the equation. But regarding your other observations, we have not found government management to be less wasteful than private management. The waste is just handled according to a different set of priorities. And it has not been my personal observation that government bureaucrats are more concerned about the welfare of the citizens than private sector bureaucrats. If anything, there is less accountability with the government. At least private companies answer to the stockholders. The government appears to answer to nobody. And even though we can vote out the lawmakers, the entrenched systems remain outside the influence of the people.
There was a scene in a sci fi movie.. I forget which one... in which an alien spacecraft was being studied in an elaborate underground lab. One of the characters asks "if this is top secret, how did you get funding for all this?"
and the military guy replies "you don't really think we pay $200 for hammers do you?"
Yes, it's just a movie, but it underscores the potential for skimming across all income generating entities in the control of the government
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My main concern is that this is not a health care bill but a take over of the private sector by a government that wants to impose a defacto police state.
In this bill the IRS will be able to take funds from your account with out due process and you will be fined or worse if you do not pay into this system.
They will hire 17000 new IRS agent to administer this socialist program.
The main issue is the government mandating what you buy and if you have the right to say "NO". The Constitution is under attack.
I can not afford health insurance, I had to give it up because the price was higher than I can afford BUT I'll live and die with no health ins before I'll allow this congress and president to turn this into a socialist state.
It's about time that this nation realize that this NOT about health ins but the destruction of this free nation into a 3rd world ghost of what we were.
Freedom and personal rights acknowledged by the Constitution paid for by other generations with sacrifice and blood should not be sold out for the false promise of supposed health ins by self serving representatives.
We will live to see that this a fraud but it may be too late when the gates are closed behind us.
"Those that trade freedom for security will have neither" attrib possible Ben Franklin
In case you wonder where I stand, Wyndham
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As someone who basically retired at 53 for health reasons (though my pension is pretty high), I would be totally broke and destitute if I was an American Citizen, so I can at least be thankful for that.
John, I surely have no idea where you think you're getting your information from. You're a retired Fireman, right? Los Angeles Fire and Police Department people have absolutely full coverage insurance and extremely generous pensions as retirees. These people are getting pensions of over 100K a year in most cases with full coverage insurance too. Broke and destitute?!? You've got to be kidding. One of our California State Leglislators is a retired CHP Captain. He's 58. He's drawing his pension of $107,000 plus he's making about the same in the Legislature. One of the big problems here is this idea of "double dipping". Fire and police usually retire around age 50-55 or so and then go to work full time in the private sector. It's perfectly legal but just seems wrong. If you can take a job at the same or more than what you're pension is from the Fire Dept, then the pension should not be paid or at least not all of it but no, these guys get all of it. It's especially bad when the "retiree" goes to work for another government agency. One example of this is a guy who retired from the DA's office as an ADA. His pension is over 140K and he was appointed by the governor to be a state court judge at a salary of 180K. That's right, this person is making 320K a year! Plus full coverage health insurance from the DA's retirement system. These scenarios are all union negotiated contracts and is a big reason why California is some 20 billion in the red.
Nobody who retires as a municipal employee is hurting in the least, John. Far from it.
Don't just listen to me, google LAFD health and retirement and read all about it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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