PG Music Home Forums PG Music Wishlists Band-in-a-Box Wishlist Please Change Default From Three Choruses to One

This has probably been asked lots of times but here I go again! Please change the default from three choruses to one. The default setting is an artifact of an earlier time for a fading genre of music. (Sorry, not sorry!)

For every single song I have ever created with BIAB since I got it in 2012, the first thing I have to do is change chorus from 3 to 1. I know it is not a huge problem but it is a constant reminder of the quirkiness of this software when it could be so much smoother.

Maybe add a preferences option to allow this to be changed back to the old behavior but don't make the vast majority of your new customers deal with this weirdness on every song! Thank you!

Good observation.

I do not support changing the default, because if it were set to 1 chorus, beginners perhaps would not know the option for more was even there. We would receive as many or more questions from lost souls.

I DO support making it an option, +1 for that, so you and any others can set it once and forget it. I, being a jazz player for whom this setting is perfect, will not change it.

People use the program differently.

I encourage you to revisit this when all of us jazz players, for which BIAB was originally designed, are gone.

If I were working at PGM I would conduct a little survey.

1) How many existing BIAB customers use multiple choruses?
2) How many do not?

3) How many new BIAB customers use multiple choruses?
4) How many do not?

The answers to those questions would determine what the default setting is.

I would wager PGM will not lose or even upset a single jazzman by changing the default to 1 chorus as long as the option exists to change the default back to 3 or 27 or whatever!

I would also wager that the answer to #3 above is "the vast majority". So why in the world would you subject every new user to a quirky musical remnant from the past? The answer, of course, is I would not!

+1. I would love to see the default change to 1 Chorus. For me having to change the setting each time I start a new song file is a continual irritation.

I will settle for a number of chorus setting in Preference Settings.

I am all for the option to change the number of choruses to any number as long as the options we have now stay in place.

Also if things are going to change why not have the option to globally change the number of measures as well. Thus one can make 1 chorus and 64 measures the global options while still having the current chorus window in place, it would show 1-64-1, but one would have the option to change any of those parameters on a song to song basis.

Great idea Mario! +1

Good idea Mario.

However I believe more people might view, discuss and support your idea if it was in it's own thread.

As I said, it's a good idea. I'd like to see it get the recognition it deserves.

+1
for a in Preference Settings on Default Number of chorus

This is essentially describing creating a template in BIAB. RealBand has templates. The issue with changing the chorus numbers seems simple but there are many parameters, options and processes spread across the various features of BIAB that function based on the multiple chorus concept and eliminating the 3 chorus's would interrupt and gut the core BIAB program.

The capability of having templates for users to customize BIAB to the features they use and eliminate some features no longer working wouldn't be an issue if they don't use those particular features whereas changing the default affects everyone and the core BIAB program. Maybe modify the wish list wording to request a template rather than change the program.

+1 to Mario's amendment

A user-definable default preference would be most satisfactory for all.

+1

From day 1, 22 years ago I simply created a master song file called 1BLANKSONG so it would always be at the top of my song list. This song contained all my normal settings like only one chorus. There is no need to change specific BIAB settings when starting a new song unless I want to.
Tony

Hmmm, I don't think anyone suggested eliminating anything. Just change default behavior to the way the majority of users use the software!

And this is especially important for attracting new users; they are not interested in the quaint history of the wart or our tried and true work-arounds! They expect something modern.

And surely every time I start a new song and change choruses to 1 I have not gutted the core BIAB program?

It seems we all can agree to make this a preference so everyone can have what they want.

Charlie's point makes sense to me, that PG Music would have to check all the documentation and prompts to make sure everything was right if they changed the default. There might also be more to it in the code than we know.

And there is templates.

JJJ +1 (I constantly forget to change that)
Mario +1

"Please Change Default From Three Choruses to One" JohnJohnJohn

Hmmm, You did.

Changing the default from three chorus's to one 'eliminates' three as the default chorus. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, so does the words remove, get rid of, abolish, put an end to, do away with and banish.

As users, we have no real idea how a majority of users use the program. It may be folks that utilize it for practice and every song they create they change the chorus to 40. It may be music teachers that create practice tracks for students and every song track they create they change the chorus to 10 repeats. It may be users that create accompaniment tracks and use the default of three on every track they create and get the built in benefit of leaving repeats, coda's, 1st/2nd endings, and applying Bar Settings to individual chorus's all of which people that change the default to one, purposely disable (or eliminate, remove, get rid of, abolish, put an end to, do away with and banish.)

Most of the suite of programming tools of BIAB are based on the design of multiple chorus's. A partial list is the Notation view, Chord Sheet, Audio Editor View, Audio Chord Wizard, Lead Sheet and Fake Sheet. Other Tools are Bar Settings, Song Settings, and the Chord Solo tool. In the sub-menu of the Song Form Tool, Medley Maker and Repeats are based on multiple chorus's. In the Tracks Menu, the Melodist and Soloist features are based on multiple chorus's.

It's unclear to me how disabling so many options and features by using the default of one is making the BIAB program more appealing to new users. Nothing I listed is a work-around. Every item listed is a feature.

So, every time you start a new song and change choruses to 1, yes, you have gutted the core BIAB program. The fact is, one is the only number that has this disabling effect across the entire program. It is singular and unique because every other choice is a multiple and three is the minimum and optimal number to provide a middle chorus. Of course the gutting of the program is not yet permanent like changing the default to one would be without PG Music implementing major code programming changes. Simply restarting the program restores all of the disabled features that using one causes.

I agree that custom user defaults should be made an option but I don't think to change, eliminate, remove, get rid of, abolish, put an end to, do away with or banish the default of three is the best recommendation for the welfare and growth of BIAB.

Nope. You are misrepresenting what I requested Charlie! Changing something does not eliminate it even when you struggle with the meaning of words to try and make it so! And all those "gutted" features would work just fine like they already do every time I change the number of choruses to 1! My request would just hide this legacy wart and make using the program easier for users new and old!

I agree this should be an option, and we have a perfectly valid opinion from you and others. I would be happy to review the proof you have that allows you to speak for what users new and old would find easier.

No I didn't misrepresent what you said John, I quoted you. Lol, of course I didn't mean that the ability to use the 3 in the chorus selection window would be removed or taken away. I meant that BIAB would not respond to the default 1 setting to any selections commands and options that are placed in many of the BIAB tools and menus that are pre-programed to respond to multiple chorus's of which there are many more than just the repeats that are removed when you reset the chorus value at the beginning of a project.

To demonstrate what I mean in less than a minute, please try this example:

Open a New Project
Load _HARBOUR.STY
Start 1-end 8 Choruses-3
Tempo 135
Feel ev8 time sig 4/4 Key C

Enter the following 8 Chords:
C | Bb | C | Dm
Am | G | F | Bb

Place Blue Type A Part Markers at Bars 1a and 9a if they're not there by default

Use the Generate and Play Button to render and hear this 0.49 second song.
******

Listen closely to the Second "Middle Chorus" which will be Bars 9-16 in comparison to the First (1-9) and Third (17-24) Choruses. There should be a noticeable change in the drum pattern and a return in the Third Chorus to the original drum pattern.

After hearing the song play through using the default 3 Chorus method, do the following:

Edit\Song Form\Unfold (Convert to 1 BIG Chorus)

This will unfold the 8 bar 3 chorus song into a 1 Chorus 24 bar song that's still 0.49 in length.
Don't make any changes to the Chord Sheet. There will be additional Blue Part A Markers after every 8 bars.

Use the Generate and Play Button to render and hear this 0.49 second song.
(NOTE: If you don't regenerate the song, BIAB does not recognize the change from 3 Choruses to 1 Chorus and will replay the previous song from the 3 chorus render and you won't hear the song the same as you normally would when you change the 3 chorus default to 1 before generating the song in the unfolded selection. )

Listen closely to what was the "Middle Chorus" which are now bars 9-16 in comparison to what was previously the First and Third Choruses. There's no change in the drum pattern in bars 9-16. The A Part Marker plays through for the whole song or single chorus.

The difference in the "Middle Chorus" is a pre-programmed result of the BIAB software that is 'eliminated' by changing the Chorus selection to 1 from the default 3 and regenerating to invoke the change.

So, in reality, all those "gutted" features don't work just fine like they already do every time you begin a song project by changing the number of choruses to 1. They are just features that by always changing every song you start to 1, you've never used them.

This is my last word on the subject because you've not established you're speaking for the majority of users and besides, everyone has the option already for any number of Choruses between 1-40 and there's dozens of selections, options and features that depend on the multiple chorus concept.

I'll just repeat what I suggested several posts earlier...

----
If I were working at PGM I would conduct a little survey.

1) How many existing BIAB customers use multiple choruses?
2) How many do not?
3) How many new BIAB customers use multiple choruses?
4) How many do not?

The answers to those questions would determine what the default setting is.
----

But I see your point about changing the default being problematic because it would cause the program to work differently and we know big changes can mean months of bug fixes.

So do plenty of small changes, Sigh.