PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production Soundcloud/Dolby $5.00 Mastering

Well this is embarrassing. This isn't a Bose service, it's Dolby, but although I am able to change my original subject, all replies retain the incorrect information. Sorry about that!

Jim,

I just tried the Bandlab online tool. Pretty cool for four presets.

I would just advise: Make sure not to press button at end: "Would you like to share your mix with Bandlab so others can use it for free and make samples of your tune? Press here. Press here."

Other than that, cool!

However, it is funny, I used Loudness Penalty to spec out a tune and master it for Spotify. Then Bandlab turned it up 1.7. Then Loudness Penality said turn it back down.

Will it never stop!!!!!

That's ridiculous beatmaster. You need to get with the program.

Follow the science man.

David Man !! Good pic but that isn't a Revox L.O.L.

As i said matter of choice , think that's why the clinical sound from CD discs is fading and reel to reel is the new Black (vinyl).

And the vinyl come back !!, that's following the science . l.o.l.


Not to mention plug ins tape saturators etc .???.

a) if you have decent ears and gear you will be able to hear and see differences in level, EQ etc. THAT's the learning point if you're inclined to pay a fiver for this sort of thing.

b) MASTERING has, traditionally, been preparing a finished mono, stereo or surround sounds track for reproduction. many M.E.s will happily STEM MASTER for a client - a blend of correcting sonic errors of the stems and mastering the end result of that and CAN, if requested/advised and agreed, involve a little rebalancing of those stems to make a better end result and therefore a better product for reproduction. I've asked for stem mastering many times and learnt an HUGE amount from it. I haven't had that done for quite a while because I learnt plenty that improved my mixes as well as tracking. It's obviously more time intensive and costs more. A good M.E. will let you know if you need to fix stuff before they'll touch your song - they don't want to be associated with something that is a bad end result.

and
c)that's mixing...there're lots of folk who will mix via up n download for you but it's pretty expensive. Most will allow a few revisions with the cost package and may even master the end result for you.

Having a realistic expectation of your skills as a cook, a chef's skills and what an automated sausage maker can do is always a good thing.

If you REALLY want to find out the difference save up a little then invest in having a mix of yours mastered by a M.E. and by one of those up n download processes then compare the differences.
It'll let you know a lot about your song, your recording and what can be done with it. All up you might be out AUS$60, (I wouldn't recommend using an expensive or NAME M.E. 1st time but you'll KNOW.

I get my stuff mastered IF I think the song's good enough becasue I don't have the ears, room or gear to master effectively and I'm easy pray to ALL of the psychoacoustic tricks employed by shysters and the automated lot.

SOME folk can self master because they have decent ears, lots of experience AND patience. Bud, above, is one of them but I only know three home recordists who have what it takes to make a master sound like a master.

I still have two Yamaha FourTrack cassette machines (MT100s) and a VERY old stereo reel to reel machine. I do use them when I'm in the mood OR want THAT sound. I'm not keen on using a tape saturation plug when I can saturate a reel of tape and use the outs from that, (cassettes don't REALLY do the tape saturation thing though running them into the red does sound good often). I even have an outboard Dolby tape processor to do the NR thing. Working ITB isn't bad though - particularly when a 24 channel deck & machine aren't in the room.

One psychoacoustic trick is to make it louder.

Oooh, ooh, it sounds mastered.

No, they just turned it up and charged you...

(replying to rayc)

Regarding the ability to "reverse engineer" Soundcloud masterings by listening:

Sure, I'll be able to hear some stuff, especially if the tweaks are static, like if SC just applies a customized "Blue Sky" patch to the entire recording.

But if it's dynamic, if SC is adjusting dozens of parameters constantly, from moment to moment, frequency band to frequency band, yikes, that's just not something I can imagine hearing clearly enough on my own to try to reproduce.

An obvious factor here is that Soundcloud/Dolby DOES NOT WANT TO BE TOO HELPFUL in this area, and the more I contemplate this sad little factoid of life, the less inclined I am to want to put time or money here. I mean, when I say it would be nice if, along with the recording, you also got back a report saying "we did this this and this", it almost sounds ridiculously kumbaya, since of source they aren't going to do that if they want to keep you coming back for another $5 hit (no pun intended!)

Having now played around a bit with Soundcloud and Izotope, and having subscribed to the sprawling Izotope package for month-to-month use, I don't see myself using Soundcloud again. Maybe I'll check out the free preview clips for ideas, but not buy the whole track. This is all for my personal use – and if I'm looking to learn, why go to someone who will never tell me what I need to know?

Thought: Soundcloud wants to sell me a subscription to fully prepared fish dinners. Izotope wants me to learn to fish and cook so they can lease me fishing tackle and kitchen appliances.

Anyway! Regarding the relationship between mixing and mastering:

All the information you provide here is much appreciated (and obviously much needed by my fairly clueless self.) To be clear, I know nothing of the real world of professional musicians or engineers, I work at home on my iMac, and am about as likely to consider hiring a pro to mix my latest creation as I am to consider hiring a pro to write this post. So I just work away using BIAB and Logic and whatever until I can bounce it down to what I think is good; there's no reason for me to add a separate mixed-down stage to the project since there's no need for that division of labor.

Thanks again...
Mark

Mark,
I work at home on my P.C.
I work away using BIAB, my instruments and Reaper until I can bounce it down to what I think is good.
IF my song and mix seem "good" I spend the small amount of cash to have it "mastered" because I can't do that step, for the reasons explained.
I don't do it often.
The difference it makes is amazing.
The difference having an objective pair of ears listen carefully and communicate what they hear is equally amazing.

I suspect the Soundcloud, and other algorithm based, processors are static...IF you're lucky they "listen" to the track, match your requirements to a template and modify the template according to the source the process.
if you're unlucky it'll just apply the template before processing. It's very unlikely they'd shift settings within a track.

The "subscription model" is the new way of milking.
At AUS$1.10 a day for the Izotope bundle seems cheap but it's $1,200 over three years. OUCH.

Soundcloud at least pretends to listen; there's a cute animation. Thing is, during the setup operation, it does this for 30 second "preview" chunks you choose, and can re-choose if you want, and I'm not sure what the price is for choosing badly. It says to pick the part with the most dynamic range, but what if I don't? Do I get a terrible master because of that really noisy part I forgot about?

Regarding subscriptions: Yeah, there's some heinous stuff going on, but I find a subscription to something like EastWest's "ComposerCloud" really valuable as a source of bazillions of virtual instruments I could never buy on their own. Izotope gives a free week, which I went into expecting I'd pay $20 for the first month after that; I may or may not continue, but I don't know how else I could get to try out all this stuff.

Mark,

From time to time, Ozone Elements goes on sale for 29.99. I think it may be on sale at plugin boutique right now for 19.99.

Ozone 9 Elements packs a lot of punch for 30 bucks. It has a stereoizer built in (Imager) and also a master assistant button that will listen and make suggestions as a starting point.

The presets I think are more than enough as starting points for most mixes.

As I have said elsewhere, the "master" is really a final little sprinkle of fairy dust--the hard part is in the mix, and if you are careful with effects and EQs on each track, then the master should be easy.

It is a mistake to try and solve mixing issues in a "master"--which I am sure you already know. You cannot take the tomato out of the tomato soup once it is made, so to speak.

Anyway, for ease and economy I have recommended Ozone 9 Elements to a lot of folks and they seem happy. Sometimes less is more--though I am sure Ozone would be happy to sell you the $5,000 version.

Thanks, David.

The pricing here is crazymaking: Ozone Elements currently goes for $129, unless you buy it with 3 other things where the whole "suite" is... $49? I think that's really happening, but it does make the unfamiliar wonder if there's some product difference to be known about.

I'll probably just keep using "MUSIC PRODUCTION SUITE PRO" for the next month, then let the subscription drop and go for something like this.

That the version I have. I like to have all the tools at my disposal and they are awesome tools!

Hi Steve. To be clear, I'm talking about the "Music Production Suite" subscription service, which I believe is not *exactly* the same as the purchaseable product package. (One difference may be the inclusion of standalone applications, not sure.)

Oh, and now I see there's the "Izotope Everything" package, for a mere $2500! https://www.izotope.com/en/products/everything-bundle.html

Mark,

Keep your eye on that Musicians Bundle if it is $49.

I got it with Ozone 9 Essentials, Nectar 3 Essentials and Neutron 3 Essentials. (Also Iris and Rx, but I don't ever use those.) By the way, I have older, fuller versions of the same, but the features inside Essentials are all I ever use. And they are lightweight.

Nectar 3 is Amazing for vocals, and I use Neutron 3 in the signal chain on almost every track on every song, with the bass, drums, guitar and vocal presets (along with other plugins).

These plugins really bring tracks to life. For example, if you have a BIAB acoustic and you run it through the 12 string preset on Neutron 3 your eyes will pop out. It's a huge difference.

If you can get the same for $49 and learn how to use them they will radically change your sound.

Thanks for the clarification Mark. I have "Music Production Suite 4" as an outright purchase and do not use their subscription service. During previous years I had smaller packages and when upgrades came around would spend a little more $$$ to upgrade the whole package.

@DavidSnyder: "Ozone 9 Elements packs a lot of punch for 30 bucks. It has a stereoizer built in (Imager) and also a master assistant button that will listen and make suggestions as a starting point. The presets I think are more than enough as starting points for most mixes."

I found that using Ozone9 Elements as a plugin on a vocal track, often with Nectar Essentials plugin ahead of it, provides some interesting "magic" even with just using the presets supplied.

"Misusing" a plugin instead of for what it was intended can add some fun to the creating music process!

I agree!

I misuse plugins all the time!



As I said in another place, I use Neutron Essentials on almost every track, and Ozone 9 Essentials and Ozone Nectar 3 on every mix.

I have to say, though, I also have Ozone 5, and that thing is a BEAST. I see on you tube that a lot of producers swear by it and seem to like it too.

Older versions of stuff can have their place.

Like Nectar 2.

Also a beast.

Now on sale for $29.

https://www.izotope.com/en/shop/elements-suite.html

Get it.

I did. =8^) Just finished deleting all the subscription stuff and tried out my new plugins.