Well this is embarrassing. This isn't a Bose service, it's Dolby, but although I am able to change my original subject, all replies retain the incorrect information. Sorry about that!
I just tried the Bandlab online tool. Pretty cool for four presets.
I would just advise: Make sure not to press button at end: "Would you like to share your mix with Bandlab so others can use it for free and make samples of your tune? Press here. Press here."
Other than that, cool!
However, it is funny, I used Loudness Penalty to spec out a tune and master it for Spotify. Then Bandlab turned it up 1.7. Then Loudness Penality said turn it back down.
Will it never stop!!!!!
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
a) but I'm not going to be able to reverse engineer them for future projects.
b) Plus, you're starting their process with an already-mixed-down stereo recording...
c) Give me a service that lets me upload a Logic project then sends it backs to me with individual tracks adjusted then mixed down, with a full report on all actions taken!
a) if you have decent ears and gear you will be able to hear and see differences in level, EQ etc. THAT's the learning point if you're inclined to pay a fiver for this sort of thing.
b) MASTERING has, traditionally, been preparing a finished mono, stereo or surround sounds track for reproduction. many M.E.s will happily STEM MASTER for a client - a blend of correcting sonic errors of the stems and mastering the end result of that and CAN, if requested/advised and agreed, involve a little rebalancing of those stems to make a better end result and therefore a better product for reproduction. I've asked for stem mastering many times and learnt an HUGE amount from it. I haven't had that done for quite a while because I learnt plenty that improved my mixes as well as tracking. It's obviously more time intensive and costs more. A good M.E. will let you know if you need to fix stuff before they'll touch your song - they don't want to be associated with something that is a bad end result.
and c)that's mixing...there're lots of folk who will mix via up n download for you but it's pretty expensive. Most will allow a few revisions with the cost package and may even master the end result for you.
Having a realistic expectation of your skills as a cook, a chef's skills and what an automated sausage maker can do is always a good thing.
If you REALLY want to find out the difference save up a little then invest in having a mix of yours mastered by a M.E. and by one of those up n download processes then compare the differences. It'll let you know a lot about your song, your recording and what can be done with it. All up you might be out AUS$60, (I wouldn't recommend using an expensive or NAME M.E. 1st time but you'll KNOW.
I get my stuff mastered IF I think the song's good enough becasue I don't have the ears, room or gear to master effectively and I'm easy pray to ALL of the psychoacoustic tricks employed by shysters and the automated lot.
SOME folk can self master because they have decent ears, lots of experience AND patience. Bud, above, is one of them but I only know three home recordists who have what it takes to make a master sound like a master.
I still have two Yamaha FourTrack cassette machines (MT100s) and a VERY old stereo reel to reel machine. I do use them when I'm in the mood OR want THAT sound. I'm not keen on using a tape saturation plug when I can saturate a reel of tape and use the outs from that, (cassettes don't REALLY do the tape saturation thing though running them into the red does sound good often). I even have an outboard Dolby tape processor to do the NR thing. Working ITB isn't bad though - particularly when a 24 channel deck & machine aren't in the room.
Last edited by rayc; 08/14/2110:12 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Regarding the ability to "reverse engineer" Soundcloud masterings by listening:
Sure, I'll be able to hear some stuff, especially if the tweaks are static, like if SC just applies a customized "Blue Sky" patch to the entire recording.
But if it's dynamic, if SC is adjusting dozens of parameters constantly, from moment to moment, frequency band to frequency band, yikes, that's just not something I can imagine hearing clearly enough on my own to try to reproduce.
An obvious factor here is that Soundcloud/Dolby DOES NOT WANT TO BE TOO HELPFUL in this area, and the more I contemplate this sad little factoid of life, the less inclined I am to want to put time or money here. I mean, when I say it would be nice if, along with the recording, you also got back a report saying "we did this this and this", it almost sounds ridiculously kumbaya, since of source they aren't going to do that if they want to keep you coming back for another $5 hit (no pun intended!)
Having now played around a bit with Soundcloud and Izotope, and having subscribed to the sprawling Izotope package for month-to-month use, I don't see myself using Soundcloud again. Maybe I'll check out the free preview clips for ideas, but not buy the whole track. This is all for my personal use – and if I'm looking to learn, why go to someone who will never tell me what I need to know?
Thought: Soundcloud wants to sell me a subscription to fully prepared fish dinners. Izotope wants me to learn to fish and cook so they can lease me fishing tackle and kitchen appliances.
Anyway! Regarding the relationship between mixing and mastering:
All the information you provide here is much appreciated (and obviously much needed by my fairly clueless self.) To be clear, I know nothing of the real world of professional musicians or engineers, I work at home on my iMac, and am about as likely to consider hiring a pro to mix my latest creation as I am to consider hiring a pro to write this post. So I just work away using BIAB and Logic and whatever until I can bounce it down to what I think is good; there's no reason for me to add a separate mixed-down stage to the project since there's no need for that division of labor.
Mark, I work at home on my P.C. I work away using BIAB, my instruments and Reaper until I can bounce it down to what I think is good. IF my song and mix seem "good" I spend the small amount of cash to have it "mastered" because I can't do that step, for the reasons explained. I don't do it often. The difference it makes is amazing. The difference having an objective pair of ears listen carefully and communicate what they hear is equally amazing.
I suspect the Soundcloud, and other algorithm based, processors are static...IF you're lucky they "listen" to the track, match your requirements to a template and modify the template according to the source the process. if you're unlucky it'll just apply the template before processing. It's very unlikely they'd shift settings within a track.
The "subscription model" is the new way of milking. At AUS$1.10 a day for the Izotope bundle seems cheap but it's $1,200 over three years. OUCH.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Soundcloud at least pretends to listen; there's a cute animation. Thing is, during the setup operation, it does this for 30 second "preview" chunks you choose, and can re-choose if you want, and I'm not sure what the price is for choosing badly. It says to pick the part with the most dynamic range, but what if I don't? Do I get a terrible master because of that really noisy part I forgot about?
Regarding subscriptions: Yeah, there's some heinous stuff going on, but I find a subscription to something like EastWest's "ComposerCloud" really valuable as a source of bazillions of virtual instruments I could never buy on their own. Izotope gives a free week, which I went into expecting I'd pay $20 for the first month after that; I may or may not continue, but I don't know how else I could get to try out all this stuff.
From time to time, Ozone Elements goes on sale for 29.99. I think it may be on sale at plugin boutique right now for 19.99.
Ozone 9 Elements packs a lot of punch for 30 bucks. It has a stereoizer built in (Imager) and also a master assistant button that will listen and make suggestions as a starting point.
The presets I think are more than enough as starting points for most mixes.
As I have said elsewhere, the "master" is really a final little sprinkle of fairy dust--the hard part is in the mix, and if you are careful with effects and EQs on each track, then the master should be easy.
It is a mistake to try and solve mixing issues in a "master"--which I am sure you already know. You cannot take the tomato out of the tomato soup once it is made, so to speak.
Anyway, for ease and economy I have recommended Ozone 9 Elements to a lot of folks and they seem happy. Sometimes less is more--though I am sure Ozone would be happy to sell you the $5,000 version.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
The pricing here is crazymaking: Ozone Elements currently goes for $129, unless you buy it with 3 other things where the whole "suite" is... $49? I think that's really happening, but it does make the unfamiliar wonder if there's some product difference to be known about.
I'll probably just keep using "MUSIC PRODUCTION SUITE PRO" for the next month, then let the subscription drop and go for something like this.
Hi Steve. To be clear, I'm talking about the "Music Production Suite" subscription service, which I believe is not *exactly* the same as the purchaseable product package. (One difference may be the inclusion of standalone applications, not sure.)
Keep your eye on that Musicians Bundle if it is $49.
I got it with Ozone 9 Essentials, Nectar 3 Essentials and Neutron 3 Essentials. (Also Iris and Rx, but I don't ever use those.) By the way, I have older, fuller versions of the same, but the features inside Essentials are all I ever use. And they are lightweight.
Nectar 3 is Amazing for vocals, and I use Neutron 3 in the signal chain on almost every track on every song, with the bass, drums, guitar and vocal presets (along with other plugins).
These plugins really bring tracks to life. For example, if you have a BIAB acoustic and you run it through the 12 string preset on Neutron 3 your eyes will pop out. It's a huge difference.
If you can get the same for $49 and learn how to use them they will radically change your sound.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
Thanks for the clarification Mark. I have "Music Production Suite 4" as an outright purchase and do not use their subscription service. During previous years I had smaller packages and when upgrades came around would spend a little more $$$ to upgrade the whole package.
@DavidSnyder: "Ozone 9 Elements packs a lot of punch for 30 bucks. It has a stereoizer built in (Imager) and also a master assistant button that will listen and make suggestions as a starting point. The presets I think are more than enough as starting points for most mixes."
I found that using Ozone9 Elements as a plugin on a vocal track, often with Nectar Essentials plugin ahead of it, provides some interesting "magic" even with just using the presets supplied.
"Misusing" a plugin instead of for what it was intended can add some fun to the creating music process!
Cz... BIAB,Bandlab Cakewalk,Kontakt, Cantabile, SampleTank4,IK BX-3, VB3, iZotope Suite, IK TRacks, Melodyne Studio Kurzweil PC4SE, AXIOM-61key & IKiRigPro-32key boards, Roland SD-50 MIDI, Behringer 404HD, Maschine MK3,TC Helicon Voiceworks
Keep your eye on that Musicians Bundle if it is $49. I got it with Ozone 9 Essentials, Nectar 3 Essentials and Neutron 3 Essentials. (Also Iris and Rx, but I don't ever use those.)
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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