"A RealTrack must be rendered into an audio file (WAV, WMA, MP3, MP4) to be used in a DAW and the same is true for a RealTrack generated on a Utility Track and the same is true for Reaper. " I thought you didn't want to use a DAW and just stay in Biab ? The tracks generated in Reaper are not rendered there is no extra wavs written, it's only data, there is only rendering when you do a downmix to 1 stereo file. Look at the attached pic, both Biab and RealBand have the identical tracks saved but look at the file size. Reaper has the same file size as a frozen SGU. How many wavs will you have on the hard drive with all util tracks and more than 255 bars ? You are creating masses of unnecessary wav files filling up the hard drive. What bit rate and sample rate are they saved to if you are saving every thing to wav ?
"There's no difference to the user between recording live audio onto a Utility Track and generating a RealTrack." If you are recording you are creating a new wav, if you generate you don't need to create new wav files you just play the existing wav files on the 1.5 TB drive that is full of wav files, why fill up your hard drive with copies of the same files ?
"The 5 rendered tracks in your gif are WAV files as well as the comp track being a WAV file." there is no rendering as in no physical wav files created. The saved Reaper project is only like 200k not 200meg.
"How does a regular BB track behave differently than a Utility Track that makes Utility Tracks a workaround rather than a feature? What do users want done differently?" the util tracks are RealBand all over again, look at the size of the RealBand SEQ file, what if I had all 48 tracks over 255 bars how big would it be compared to the Reaper project file with 100 RealTracks and RealDrums ??
Non destructive editing can change any FX for any section of any track at anytime you like you can't do that with destructive wav FX. You can have a DI guitar with a different FX on different sections of the song on many tracks but you can easily change the FX, I don't mean track FX but section/bar FX. If I apply Audio Effect in RealBand to the wav, that's it.
RealBand is ideal just how it is if you want to work with wavs, destructive editing and massive file sizes. A lot a Biab users don't use RealBand as they like how Biab worked, but to add what they don't like about RealBand to Biab is going backward. "How does a regular BB track behave differently than a Utility Track that makes Utility Tracks a workaround rather than a feature? What do users want done differently?" To have all the Generate options as the RealTrack Picker proper, RealDrum Picker, UserTrack Picker, Loop Picker, MST Picker, MIDI Style tracks Picker or any other PICKER there is like Rusty's Multi Picker. If the RT/UT/RD/LOOPS Util tracks saved like frozen BB tracks rather than wav files that would be better wouldn't it ?
"A RealTrack must be rendered into an audio file (WAV, WMA, MP3, MP4) to be used in a DAW and the same is true for a RealTrack generated on a Utility Track and the same is true for Reaper. " I thought you didn't want to use a DAW and just stay in Biab ? The tracks generated in Reaper are not rendered there is no extra wavs written, it's only data, there is only rendering when you do a downmix to 1 stereo file. Look at the attached pic, both Biab and RealBand have the identical tracks saved but look at the file size. Reaper has the same file size as a frozen SGU. How many wavs will you have on the hard drive with all util tracks and more than 255 bars ? You are creating masses of unnecessary wav files filling up the hard drive. What bit rate and sample rate are they saved to if you are saving every thing to wav ?
"There's no difference to the user between recording live audio onto a Utility Track and generating a RealTrack." If you are recording you are creating a new wav, if you generate you don't need to create new wav files you just play the existing wav files on the 1.5 TB drive that is full of wav files, why fill up your hard drive with copies of the same files ?
"The 5 rendered tracks in your gif are WAV files as well as the comp track being a WAV file." there is no rendering as in no physical wav files created. The saved Reaper project is only like 200k not 200meg.
"How does a regular BB track behave differently than a Utility Track that makes Utility Tracks a workaround rather than a feature? What do users want done differently?" the util tracks are RealBand all over again, look at the size of the RealBand SEQ file, what if I had all 48 tracks over 255 bars how big would it be compared to the Reaper project file with 100 RealTracks and RealDrums ??
Non destructive editing can change any FX for any section of any track at anytime you like you can't do that with destructive wav FX. You can have a DI guitar with a different FX on different sections of the song on many tracks but you can easily change the FX, I don't mean track FX but section/bar FX. If I apply Audio Effect in RealBand to the wav, that's it.
RealBand is ideal just how it is if you want to work with wavs, destructive editing and massive file sizes. A lot a Biab users don't use RealBand as they like how Biab worked, but to add what they don't like about RealBand to Biab is going backward. "How does a regular BB track behave differently than a Utility Track that makes Utility Tracks a workaround rather than a feature? What do users want done differently?" To have all the Generate options as the RealTrack Picker proper, RealDrum Picker, UserTrack Picker, Loop Picker, MST Picker, MIDI Style tracks Picker or any other PICKER there is like Rusty's Multi Picker. If the RT/UT/RD/LOOPS Util tracks saved like frozen BB tracks rather than wav files that would be better wouldn't it ?
Can I go to bed now ?
<< I thought you didn't want to use a DAW and just stay in Biab? >> I don't use a DAW and do stay in BIAB for audio editing and comping. I was referring to those that do use a DAW. The tracks generated in BIAB are not rendered, there are no extra WAV's written until the file in rendered to a stereo file. It doesn't matter what RealBand's size is. It isn't relative to BIAB projects.
You are not correct that BIAB, RealBand and the Plug-in all have to have large WAV files to edit audio. It's true for RealBand and the Plug-in but we're not talking RealBand and the Plug-in or Reaper but only about BIAB. The request is to edit in BIAB. That's Legacy Tracks, the Audio Track and Utility Tracks in BIAB. To generate five tracks in BIAB and to comp from those five tracks only generates a single stereo file when editing is done and the comp track rendered. This results in a BIAB file as you say, around 100-135 Kb. There are no masses of unnecessary WAV files filling up the hard drive only a single stereo/mono WAV. I'll post screen shots.
<< There's no difference to the user between recording live audio onto a Utility Track and generating a RealTrack. >> If you do a live recording in Reaper you're creating a new WAV. If you generate a RealTrack in BIAB it will just play from the existing WAV file on the 1.5 TB drive that's full of WAV files. I agree, there's no need to fill up the hard drive with copies of the same file. My point about live recorded audio and generating is there's no distinction between the audio to BIAB or Reaper for that matter.
<< The 5 rendered tracks in your gif are WAV files as well as the comp track being a WAV file."there is no rendering as in no physical wav files created. The saved Reaper project is only like 200k not 200meg. >> Those same 5 rendered tracks in BIAB aren't WAV files and neither is the comp track a WAV file. There's no rendering and no WAV file created until the single stereo file of the comped track has been edited and comped from the 5 RealTracks and the user satisfied with that track and render's it to a stereo WAV. The BIAB project is saved as an normal SGU file and if the user ever needs to reconstruct that exact comp again, the user only needs to open the SGU file and render that track again. That BIAB project is around 100Kb or less compared to Reaper's 200K
<< How does a regular BB track behave differently than a Utility Track that makes Utility Tracks a workaround rather than a feature? What do users want done differently?"the util tracks are RealBand all over again, look at the size of the RealBand SEQ file, what if I had all 48 tracks over 255 bars how big would it be compared to the Reaper project file with 100 RealTracks and RealDrums?? >>
BIAB is not RealBand and has many features that are not included in RealBand or the Plug-in, neither of those programs are full-featured BIAB programs. The size of a RealBand SEQ file regardless of the track numbers or Bar length is not relevant. A BIAB project with 100 RealTRacks and RealDrums would be considerably smaller than a Reaper Project.
<< "If I apply Audio Effect in RealBand to the wav, that's it." >> BIAB is not RealBand, if you apply Plug-in Audio Effect (Flanger) to a RealTrack, the effect can be turned off any time prior to the song being rendered with the effect. There's no WAV until the track is rendered in BIAB.
<< "RealBand is ideal just how it is if you want to work with wavs, destructive editing and massive file sizes." >>
BIAB is not RealBand... Does not behave like RealBand. It has more features, techniques and processes than RealBand, Audacity, Reaper, Sonar, Logic, Pro-Tools, Studio One, Cakewalk and every other DAW in the world. BIAB stands alone and it's two built-in audio editors can do things DAWs can't do. It can do them faster and better and all without creating masses of WAV files filling up the hard drive.
<< "How does a regular BB track behave differently than a Utility Track that makes Utility Tracks a workaround rather than a feature? What do users want done differently?" To have all the Generate options as the RealTrack Picker proper, RealDrum Picker, UserTrack Picker, Loop Picker, MST Picker, MIDI Style tracks Picker or any other PICKER there is like Rusty's Multi Picker. >>
Those are all features I fully support users presenting on the Wishlist and PG Music implementing. However, none of them have anything to do with editing audio in BIAB including generating, highlighting, fx's or file size. So yes, go for that full steam...
<< If the RT/UT/RD/LOOPS Util tracks saved like frozen BB tracks rather than wav files that would be better wouldn't it? >> Yes, this would be beneficial but is not crucial. This is the only item in BIAB that you've mentioned that presently requires a workaround but only as it applies to the Audio Track and Utility Tracks.
I have attached a screen shot of the Comp SGU Main Screen and of two WAV forms created by generating 5 RealTracks and comping them onto a Utility Track. The left screen shot was captured after the comped Utility Track was rendered onto a WAV file. The 5 Utility Tracks were frozen and the Utility Track was erased. I also saved the track and bar selections into the song memo and the SGU project saved and closed.
The right side screen shot was made by opening that saved file with the 5 frozen RealTracks, selecting and pasting onto the Utility Track the same bars for each track exactly like they're listed in the memo and since the 5 RealTracks were frozen when the file was previously save, the result is an exact reproduction of the original Comp track. The Comp SGU file is only 160kb and as many exact copies can be rendered as the user wants or the same 5 RealTracks can be used to create a new Comp file or minor editing can be used to fix small issues that arise later in the project.
When replying to the first post you said Biab can do this in the Util tracks. But then when I say it creates wav files you say it doesn't and use the normal BB tracks as an example.
"The tracks generated in BIAB are not rendered, there are no extra WAV's written until the file in rendered to a stereo file....You are not correct that BIAB, RealBand and the Plug-in all have to have large WAV files to edit audio....I agree, there's no need to fill up the hard drive with copies of the same file....There are no masses of unnecessary WAV files filling up the hard drive only a single stereo/mono WAV....BIAB is not RealBand." (in the pic below it's RealBand all over again)
"BIAB is not RealBand... Does not behave like RealBand. It has more features, techniques and processes than RealBand, Audacity, Reaper, Sonar, Logic, Pro-Tools, Studio One, Cakewalk and every other DAW in the world. BIAB stands alone and it's two built-in audio editors can do things DAWs can't do. It can do them faster and better and all without creating masses of WAV files filling up the hard drive." If that's not a stuck in the past time warp lock delusional denial what is it ? THIS IS THE VERY THING I think that says everything there is to stay, as I have said ALL ALONG since coming here there is way is too much blocking by old guards that has held PG in the 90's for way too long, you are really up against it here.
See that's why I said just do it with the BBPlugin, BUT because of all the old guard crap for years n years here it blocks the BBPlugin development from real potential also. This all flowed over in the development of the BBPlugin, it has been a incredible fight to get normal industry standard features put in the BBPlugin. I think I must be so stupid to hang around here, "kicking against the pricks", why on earth should I even bother, honestly ????????????????????? I sit here typing all this stuff and for what reason ??????? 0
If you've seen that light you give that light to others, but the light shines in the darkness and the darkness comprehends it not.
<< When replying to the first post you said Biab can do this in the Util tracks. But then when I say it creates wav files you say it doesn't and use the normal BB tracks as an example. >>
I chose to demonstrate using 5 BIAB generated tracks for comping for several reasons.
1. Regarding creating WAV files, it's not relevant where or how BIAB generates these 5 tracks because other than the single stereo render, no other file is required to be rendered and saved. One WAV file of the comped track, that's all that's necessary. The BIAB SGU file can be saved and will have all of the information necessary to retain and restore the Style, Chord Chart, Key, Tempo, and the RealTrack that was comped. If editing is needed, import the comped track, select the appropriate RT and regenerate the edit needed. So, regardless whether I use one Utility Track, 5 Legacy normal RealTracks, or all 23 of the total tracks available to create a comped track, the saved SGU can save and restore that scenario. It's what BIAB does. Although generating 5 Utility Tracks works, it's unnecessary and redundant. It's much faster and easier to create the comp track by selecting regions and generating the track in sections as explained in point 2.
2. The PG Music Utility Track introduction video I posted earlier in the thread demonstrates the process how a user can comp a track from scratch using a single Utility Track at the 3:40 mark. Just by highlighting any region and generating multiple versions of the region and selecting the best version, then repeat that process for selected regions until the end of the track.
3. Generating 3-5 tracks and exporting them into a DAW to comp a single track appears to be a common practice of users. Generating 5 tracks, exporting them to a DAW is mentioned by one poster in this thread. Your gif demonstration used 5 tracks. Generating 5 normal RealTracks seemed to be a demonstration users could easily relate to. My purpose is to demonstrate the BIAB capability to comp tracks within the program without the need of a DAW.
4. There's an excellent tutorial elsewhere in the forum of how to create a sax solo in BIAB and the narrator uses 5 tracks generated in BIAB, exported from BIAB into Cubase.
5. BIAB can generate 5 Utility Tracks and use them to comp into a single track and update the silent midi charts as well using normal Legacy tracks or Utility Tracks or a combination of the two. There's no necessity to create multiple WAV files.
<< See that's why I said just do it with the BBPlugin... >> There will always be users that are more comfortable working in a DAW and depend on BIAB simply to generate tracks they can manipulate those WAV files in their DAW. RealBand, the BBPlugin and DAWs are integral to their song creation process. Your time isn't wasted and you help everyone with your efforts. Only you can decide if that's worth your time and effort.
While I appreciate your attempt to show how large a folder could be if a project uses all 16 Utility Tracks, it's off topic and a completely useless representation about generating a comp track from 5 RealTracks in BIAB because it's inaccurate regrading what's required.
To provide viewers an accurate and real life example graphic, I've attached a screen shot of the folder of a 96 bar song that's 3.26 in length adapted from a PG Music demo. The screen shot contains the SGU file and the single necessary WAV file rendered of the comped track that took only one Utility Track to do it. Comping this track in BIAB created a 36.7Mb WAV and a 38.7Kb SGU file.
You are telling me stuff that I have done for years. Why have you got Util Tracks now ? why have you got a "PG Music Utility Track introduction video" ?, you are telling me about Util tracks generating RealTracks, you have that now because because I said something, else you would not have it period, limited generate is a last minute make do after thought. Now you say to me that is good enough, don't take things further, this is THE cut off in history, no further development is needed. How many features in Biab are you now using simply for me being here ?????? I've seen it with my own two eyes so many times over the years, way back the very same user whom block a new suggestion I made, now years later recommends the now added feature to other users.
What are you trying to tell me, what do you want me to do, stay in your comfort zone, don't go beyond, don't aim higher, fear of the unknown, don't rock the boat ?
Lord, it's the same old tune, fiddle and guitar Where do we take it from here? Rhinestone suits and new shiny cars It's been the same way for years We need a change Somebody told me, when I came to Nashville Son, you finally got it made Old Hank made it here and we're all sure that you will But I don't think Hank done it this way No, I don't think Hank done it this way
Originally Posted By: RickeG
11/03/2010 In my short experience working with BIAB, I can only think of one item I would like to see; a process where I can highlight the selected range of measures I would like to regenerate. The reason I believe this is something of value is often times as I am composing I will really like a particular part that was generated but not another. As it stands now, I must make the decision to lose the section I do like in order to try and achieve something for the section I don't like.
If I can highlight a range of bars and hit "regenerate" and it only modifies that range it would make the overall project more to what I desire. In the days when I used JAMMER, I was able to do that. Would it be possible to see that in BIAB?
Thanks, RickeG
The light shone in the darkness and the darkness comprehended it not. There have been so many insights posted over the years and many got pounced on by the old guard and those users were got rid of never to return again as you see by the number of their posts, hence PG stuck in the past. I had to force what little you have now into being 11 years later. You either trust me with what I say, but don't give me lines and lines of old stuff trying to get me to come back to the past where I have been there and done that.
I do get a little tired of some folks' negative references to the 'old guard' as if they only do damage. I also get tired of the claims by a few to have been the only one to have invented ideas. November 2010 was a full two years after RealTracks were introduced. It would be hard to prove who first hit upon the concept of regenerating less than a full song, but it is equally hard to ascribe all credit to one person since such proposals are discussed and refined by many. That is a great strength of this forum. If an idea cannot survive a little scrutiny, perhaps it isn't quite ready.
And I do realize you have admitted you posted under at least one other name before your registration date of 2015.
Everyone's contributions are valuable here, cumulatively and collaboratively.
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When other users come up with ideas or prototypes I support them, look at Old Muso's Bar View a lot of work went into that. I know what the story is as I see and hear things before they even happen.
Look at Rusty's GUI, should we try to block him ? what do you yourself think Matt ?
I have no problem with these ideas. For RustySpoon’s, I would prefer to switch between modes to see one or the other. OldMuso thread ideas don’t particularly do anything for me but I don’t think I ever commented, especially not negatively.
Who do you think is ‘blocking’ anything? How can that even be done here?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
..Who do you think is ‘blocking’ anything? How can that even be done here?
So both you and Charlie don't want to exercise a "veto" to this suggestion ????????????????????????????????? no vetos about changing and updating the software ?? no old guarding going on ?? everything is all good ?? are you really sure about this ??
OldMuso thread ideas might not particularly do anything for me but I went out of my way to help him out to find what he wanted and express in animated gifs examples.
<< So ... Charlie doesn't want to exercise a "veto" to this suggestion????? >> No << no vetos about changing and updating the software?? >> None. But understand that changing and updating the software doesn't mean the program is not perfectly usable today. Features, including Utility Tracks work as advertised. Utility Tracks will do exactly what's demonstrated in the PG Music Utility Tracks Introduction video. Audio Recording will do exactly what's demonstrated in the PG Music Recording Video.
<< no old guarding going on?? >> No. I didn't own BIAB software in 2010 nor participate in the Forum. Neither Recording Audio or Utility Tracks existed in 2010. My postings were about correcting inaccurate statements being made about audio editing and Utility Tracks. Once a track is generated, whether direct file access was used or not is totally irrelevant to editing in BIAB after the file is generated. If Direct File Access is implemented in BIAB, editing will still occur after the file is generated.
<< everything is all good?? >> Yes. BIAB works great but I expect to see 50 or more improvements like normal when 2022 is released. Don't you? PG Music has people working on this.
<< are you really sure about this?? >> Absolutely.
You don't get it, I'm trying to drop subtle hints to click your memory without posting the information that will expose what's going on here. I had to go back and find the info that was brought to my memory about what Matt was saying, even though it was deleted because it was very exposing, I still do have a copy, and to my surprise (well not surprised at all now I see) there was Charlie there also, so it all comes out. I think Matt may now know what the story is but Charlie hasn't clicked as you can see above he's still in hit mode. Here I was trying to help Charlie with gifs to get to the issue but there was just an ulterior motive going on (stupid me I was nearly fooled). No wonder, no wonder, no wonder it was still stuck in the 90's when I came here , the inner workings have been reveled to me, who says there's no old guard, deep state ! I don't want to have to post the posts here that will expose what's going on, I would rather you just drop this hit job.
" If Direct File Access is implemented in BIAB, editing will still occur after the file is generated. "
What file ? there is no file created, it is just source reference data that non destructive editing is applied to during playback. "inaccurate statements being made" same as you said I was creating files in Reaper, NO FILES CREATED. "A RealTrack must be rendered into an audio file (WAV, WMA, MP3, MP4) to be used in a DAW and the same is true for a RealTrack generated on a Utility Track and the same is true for Reaper."
NO hit going on here. No constructive conversation either. I'm out of the discussion but I stand behind every word I've written in this thread and can demonstrate each technique and result if it's needed.
"No constructive conversation either" only 3 pages of clear explanations.
"can demonstrate each technique and result if it's needed" Show me where these files are in Reaper, show me where they would be in Biab with using Direct File Access.
I'm glad you clicked.
So has Reaper created AcG011.wav in the RealTrack folder, but that's weird the date is 2008, that must be the file you mean.
Uhhff... Some crazy and unexpected storm we had... After 3 days, I still can hear water bubbling down from the top of the mountain. Power is back. Full sunshine ahead.
I hope that these are the last of the storm surges here too. I feel it is just a misunderstanding that makes this uneasy. Charlie, I think the issue is, you do not see a specific wish as a limitation, but a "problem that needs to be solved at any means." Seems, that if it is achievable, even if not in a particular way, that wish request was presented, it "becomes" invalidated. When a person explains exactly how they want the wish to be fulfilled and you are offering a workaround, saying that it is exactly how the program operates, it makes people confused (because it is not) and discouraged from further conversations. In my opinion your observations and techniques, such as in this post are valid, but do not address "wish" request specifics, I feel they are more inline with regular BIAB Windows forum section or Tips / Tricks section.
Pipeline in my view explains how to get from A to B the shortest and cleanest way. It does not support wish directly, but I can see how his proposal might benefit the idea. I am far from programming, but it makes total sense to save a map of positions of the files, instead of actual files being assembled, such as how most DAWs do it. Whether this is achievable or not, I do not know. Seems if it is, it will take BIAB to another level. I do have reservations about the reading from the external disk, as far as seek times, given the number of files & folders particularly on older usb 2 systems, with less than perfect usb port / motherboard chips. Somebody with knowledge probably can answer that.
There had been several request for partial bar selection freeze or bar to bar regeneration. I would prefer this route: select bars, right click-> freeze selected> choice of either freeze all tracks within those selected bars or individual tracks. See attached.
<< Charlie, I think the issue is, you do not see a specific wish as a limitation, but a "problem that needs to be solved at any means." Seems, that if it is achievable, even if not in a particular way, that wish request was presented, it "becomes" invalidated. >> True for this specific eleven year old wish revived by Pipeline to promote his direct file access idea but it's true only as it applies to versions prior to 2021 BIAB. When this wish was posted in 2010, Pipeline's direct file access concept for BIAB did not exist. Recording Audio and Performance Tracks did not exist. "Isolate what measures to generate", "Enable Audio Edit for RealTracks", and "Unfreeze/regenerate one bar on one channel" were valid wishes in 2010.
The workaround strictly for audio editing is, and always has been, exporting RealTracks into DAWs. The BIAB Audio Editor is on par with any and every DAW and audio editor program for editing and comping RealTracks. Since audio recording/editing and Performance Tracks were implemented in BIAB and all of BIAB's features remain accessible, it's normally easier, faster and better than any other method. It is by no definition a workaround. It is a native feature of BIAB but users choose to continue to use a DAW that in most cases, they were familiar with its operation before they ever purchased BIAB. Makes sense to me they would do that, it's comfortable.
From 2014/15 forward, the problem was solved by PG Music even if not by the particular way the wish request was presented. RealTracks could be edited using the BIAB Audio Editor and RealTrack one bar regeneration became possible solely within the BIAB program with no external software necessary. The above wishes are valid pertaining to RealBand and the PGPlugin VST. Neither RealBand or the PGPlugin VST are full featured BIAB products and both lack many BIAB features and are just light editions of BIAB.
Pipeline's wish for Direct File Access is necessary to be included in the BIAB program so it's accessible to other PG Music products and will improve interaction between PG Music products and external DAW and audio software programs and aid PGMusic future product development. Read through my posts and you'll see that I support Direct File Access.
Pipeline chose the wrong eleven year old wish to revive. Direct File Access has no effect on audio editing in BIAB. RealBand, PGPlugin and future development is another topic and Direct File Access is a great idea. I'm like you, "whether this is achievable or not, I do not know. Seems if it is, it will take BIAB to another level." Regardless of that outcome, it will have zero effect on editing audio or comping a track from multiple generations of a RealTrack in BIAB.
Pipeline's allegation that audio editing, regeneration and comping tracks creates multitudes of WAV files filling up the hard drive is nonsense. A comp track created in BIAB using 5 generations of individual RealTracks, Chords, bars and regions created in BIAB only needs to render the final edited WAV file. Freezing the generated Mixer Tracks and making a Comp Chart in the Song Memo page retains all of the necessary data for those tracks in the SGU file. That's a smaller file than a similar project saved in Reaper and much smaller than a saved RealBand SEQ file. Even if the original WAV file is lost. The frozen track data and song memo and SGU file can be used to recreate the comped file.
I've attached screen shots of the 79.2Kb SGU File image of the SGU main page. The 9.67 WAV file and the Song Memo Comp Summary.
There had been several request for partial bar selection freeze or bar to bar regeneration. I would prefer this route: select bars, right click-> freeze selected> choice of either freeze all tracks within those selected bars or individual tracks. See attached.
Rusty, this is a well thought out and generally great idea. However (you knew that was coming, right?), it is too complicated for PGM to implement and get stable. It adds a need to have an indicator for bars that are frozen separately from the overall track. It requires complex management of different bars of the track. I cannot even wrap my head around how complex this could be.
IMHO a much simpler method would be as follows,
1) allow me to select a bar or contiguous set of bars and regenerate just those bars 2) there is no step 2!
This changes one single thing...selective regeneration. It does not alter or affect the current frozen track management in any way. If the track is already frozen no regenerate can be done (just like current behavior). If the track is not frozen then the selected bars are regenerated but the rest of the track is not. As you correctly pointed out we need an option to choose which track should be regenerated but that is it. My proposal has no/low side effects.
This thread is too long for me to follow, but that won't stop me from contributing even at the risk of not knowing what's going on....
Didn't we get this requested feature with MultiRiffs in 2020?
MultiRiffs is a popular feature that has been available in RealBand and the Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin. Now it is available in Band-in-a-Box 2020. It allows you to quickly generate 7 variations of riffs from the same RealTracks for either a portion of the song or the whole song.
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Didn't we get this requested feature with MultiRiffs in 2020?
Well, I'm sure someone will come in and say "YES, we already have this feature!" but if we do I sure don't know how to use it. Charlie explained how to do this on a utility track but that does not address the wishlist request. 1) select bars, 2) click regenerate for selected bars only, 3) repeat until you're satisfied with the result. When finished you have a standard RT track with the selected bars regenerated. Anything you can do with an RT track is available to you. No utility track conversion to audio needed.
Charlie, for the most part I am talking about this: "problem was solved by PG Music even if not by the particular way the wish request was presented." To me, how it was solved, it did not address wish. You can not select bars, right click and freeze just those bars. Not comping, not audio editing. Just simply freeze selection.
About direct playback access.. in my understanding each regeneration forms a new audio by mixing an actual audio file(s) instead of just "playing a position" that what takes 6-10 seconds of "regeneration". Here is my stone age view. Imagine a book and a list of bookmarks with highlighted text. Instead of opening the book and reading these sections per instruction, BIAB copies parts to separate "sheets" and glues them to a big "physical" board to make it coherent. I might be wrong... ----------
JJJ, "(you knew that was coming, right?)" Kind of. Ok.. while your idea is simpler, here is the issue. Lets assume you got, 70 bars, if you add bars, or make any chord changes at any place, BIAB will most likely create a new generation on playback for unfrozen tracks. Adding a chord on bar 70, might change anything anywhere (what is not frozen).
Please let me ask you this, so I understand this better. In your proposal, how will regenerated selected bars (your way), will stay intact if they are not frozen? In my archaic understanding of BIAB algorithm, while your proposal makes sense from user end, it would be a 2 step behind the scenes actions. Regenerate + Freeze (exclude from next regeneration) of those sections...
Also, how will you know what you regenerated and what you did not, especially if you do bar to bar at random sections? In my opinion indications would be needed. We had that discussion not too long ago. Found pics from it. Or you proposing doing partial regens "by ear"?
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
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