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So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast #669933 08/24/21 04:36 PM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca. jazzmammal OP Veteran
OP jazzmammal Veteran Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca.	No matter how much we think we know, it's so easy to overlook the obvious. My computer suddenly would not wake up yesterday morning. I usually leave it running for several days then let it reboot. This time no matter what I did it would not wake up so I had to do a hard shut down. Rebooted it and it took forever, then I see a blue screen MS update error. Oh, oh I thought. Did this thing shut down or lock up in the middle of an update? I get past that and then it booted to the bios screen for no apparent reason. Nothing wrong there as far as I could tell. I exited the bios and it finally booted to the desktop but I could tell something was very wrong. I did another reboot. It took like 6 minutes and then I try to go online and it's like everything had slowed down 90%. I close the brower and opened a couple programs, same thing. Lots of hanging before anything happens including typing. My system was very sick. Thinking I had a corrupted update I did a restore back to August 19. That only took 3 1/2 hours and when it rebooted I could tell it was still not right. Same long bootup, same hiccups going online and other things, same restarts hoping for the best but nada. Suddenly I realized when I was standing next to it I couldn't hear the fan. I bent over and put my ear close and definitely no fan. I immediately opened CPUID and sure enough the CPU is running at 85c! I looked up my processor and the range is supposed to be 56-65c with an absolute max temp of 71. I shut it down for an hour and booted it up again but with my big floor fan blowing directly on it from two feet away. That was 5 hours ago and it runs perfectly. CUPID says it's about 59c. I say about because it measures each core, plus other stuff separately. All that grief, and what happened is the fan stopped working and it overheated. AARGGHH! At least I don't need a new computer. Yet. I think it knows I'm replacing it when Win 11 comes out. Bob Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #669977 08/25/21 03:45 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida Planobilly Veteran
Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida	LOL, I am laughing with you not at you Bob. I think your poor Intel 4770 should file an age discrimination lawsuit. I had a similar overheating problem which I think was the eventual cause of the motherboard failure. I just finished rebuilding that Intel 4770 machine. New motherboard and new Intel i5 processor. I am very happy with the results. Billy New location, new environment, new music coming soon Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #669980 08/25/21 04:02 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Good work diagnosing. The next step will be to see if the replacement fan runs, so you can determine if it’s the fan controller on the motherboard, the power supply, or just a plain burned out or frozen fan. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #670038 08/25/21 11:55 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,123 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,123 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	I had a fan go on an old laptop. It wouldn't start, instead it gave me a DOS-Like "FAN ERROR" message. Fortunately, UTube taught me how to replace it. I hope your replacement goes as easily as mine did. The hardest part was disassembling it enough to get to the fan. Notes Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast Notes Norton #670050 08/25/21 01:17 PM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: May 2020 Posts: 1,655 Victoria, BC Simon - PG Music Product Manager
Simon - PG Music Product Manager Joined: May 2020 Posts: 1,655 Victoria, BC	Originally Posted By: Notes Norton I had a fan go on an old laptop. It wouldn't start, instead it gave me a DOS-Like "FAN ERROR" message. Fortunately, UTube taught me how to replace it. I hope your replacement goes as easily as mine did. The hardest part was disassembling it enough to get to the fan. Notes At least the computer told you what was happening, and you didn't have to chase the problem down like Bob did! Thankfully for him his computer was designed to throttle the CPU when overheating to prevent damage, which was causing the slowdown and weirdness - though I'd personally give it a stress test once the fan is replaced, just to make sure there was no damage! I work here

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #670079 08/25/21 03:02 PM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida Planobilly Veteran
Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida	Bob, there is a free program called Core Temp that you can download and put on the desktop. You can program it to display alarms/temps and even turn your computer off. Billy New location, new environment, new music coming soon Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #670087 08/25/21 03:52 PM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca. jazzmammal OP Veteran
OP jazzmammal Veteran Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca.	That sounds better than CUPID, thanks. That would have saved me some time for sure. I'm away from home again but before I left this morning it booted up normal. I opened both Firefox and Edge to multiple pages, played some Biab songs and streamed some vids and it runs perfectly as long as my big fan is blowing on it, haha. When I get back I'll take it apart and see if I can replace the fan. It will be tight because it's a ZOTAC Zbox mini PC that I love because it uses mostly standard components without using mobile stuff. It's about the size of my 4TB full size external drives. Bob Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #670092 08/25/21 04:40 PM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,047 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,047 Hamlin NY	Bob, I use open hardware monitor: https://openhardwaremonitor.org/ It reads the cpu temps, fan speeds, and a ton of other information. Plus its free. My goal this weekend is to move just enough each day so that no one pokes me to see if I'm dead or not. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast Simon - PG Music #670148 08/26/21 03:15 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,123 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,123 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music Originally Posted By: Notes Norton I had a fan go on an old laptop. It wouldn't start, instead it gave me a DOS-Like "FAN ERROR" message. Fortunately, UTube taught me how to replace it. I hope your replacement goes as easily as mine did. The hardest part was disassembling it enough to get to the fan. Notes At least the computer told you what was happening, and you didn't have to chase the problem down like Bob did! Thankfully for him his computer was designed to throttle the CPU when overheating to prevent damage, which was causing the slowdown and weirdness - though I'd personally give it a stress test once the fan is replaced, just to make sure there was no damage! I agree. Another reason I use ThinkPads I can troubleshoot PA systems, and even Cable TV Systems (I had a job doing that when I was testing out what it is to be 'normal') but inside the computer itself I'm afraid I'm pretty worthless at diagnosing all but the simplest problems. I do know a good repair shop, though I hardly ever need to use them. Notes Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #670167 08/26/21 05:46 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,154 Winston-Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,154 Winston-Salem, NC USA	I visited the website and discovered Zotac makes some nice looking, purpose built computers. The +++ Zotac Download Center +++ has manuals available by model number. There maybe an exploded diagram or parts list to help with the fan. The +++ Mainboard +++ picture on the website show the fan is held in place with spring clips. It's difficult to say from the picture but the fan looks to be a standard size. Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #672994 09/14/21 08:36 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 9,412 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 9,412 Middlesex, NC	Interestingly, the fan on a refrigerator will also cause it to stop working. The evaporator fan. Computers. Yep.... I worked for a company doing some 3rd party servicing on their equipment and systems. I got called to a hospital and was told the system was crashing and wasn't running right. I get there and the head of security starts telling me he wants a brand new server installed TODAY! I explain that I'm a 3rd party factory trained tech but I don't carry $25k servers in my truck. So he storms off and I start working on the system. I open it up and go into the CPU. First clue was the air intake filter was clogged by dust. Inside the CPU I found more dust than should be in the entire hospital. I used canned air to blow it out and the cloud of dust and dust bunnies was unreal. I reassembled it and called him to come back to the nurse station. He gets there and says... "Well?" I pointed to the dust bunnies on the desk, explained where they came from, and told him he really needed to set up a PM schedule to clean the dust filter on a monthly basis. He yells about wanting a new server and I pointed out that I doubted that they were going to replace a 9 month old server that had dust blocking the cooling air intake. Veins were throbbing on his temple and he stomps off.... I tried to call him back to sign the paperwork but he never returned. I left. The system worked well from that point and didn't crash as far as I know. He was not happy and told the company to never send me back. OK.... I'm actually good with that. BTW.... I started this computer a few minutes ago.... the screen was blank. Nothing.... I know the HDMI died so I have been running on the VGA. I'm thinking the worst as well.... Oh great, the video outs are toasted.... I start checking the wires and the VGA cable had fallen out of the connector on the monitor. (wipes the sweat).... up and running. Maybe there's a lesson there? I should be looking for a replacement computer and switch everything before the inevitable happens? Last edited by Guitarhacker; 09/14/21 08:40 AM. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast Guitarhacker #673084 09/14/21 09:32 PM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,530 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,530 Melbourne, Australia	Yes, in my early years in repairing electronic equipment, a very experienced colleague used to always say: "start with a visual inspection". Your two examples above demonstrate how that is generally the best starting point. BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #673099 09/15/21 02:08 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Also, consider it may be a short between the chair and the keyboard. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast Matt Finley #673106 09/15/21 03:15 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 730 Florida etcjoe Journeyman
etcjoe Journeyman Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 730 Florida	Originally Posted By: Matt Finley Also, consider it may be a short between the chair and the keyboard. Yeah my problems are always a loose nut on the keyboard. My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast Matt Finley #673111 09/15/21 04:39 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,530 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,530 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted By: Matt Finley Also, consider it may be a short between the chair and the keyboard. PICNIC? (problem in chair, not in computer ) BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #673118 09/15/21 05:10 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,952 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Yep. But to be fair, even these problems are not helped by poor software design or weak documentation. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #673223 09/15/21 01:23 PM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 9,412 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 9,412 Middlesex, NC	O.M. One of the things I say all the time in my business.... Operator Malfunction. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast jazzmammal #673503 09/17/21 10:35 AM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2017 Posts: 2,945 Victoria, BC Ember - PG Music PG Music Staff
Ember - PG Music PG Music Staff Joined: Jun 2017 Posts: 2,945 Victoria, BC	I definitely sympathize with this. Sometimes all it takes to get your computer up and running is a replacement fan, although with some laptop models that come with the plastic clips it can be a bit of a pain the butt to do the replacement. Glad the resolution ended up being fairly easy to remedy. Cheers, Ember

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast Ember - PG Music #673517 09/17/21 12:08 PM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: May 2020 Posts: 1,655 Victoria, BC Simon - PG Music Product Manager
Simon - PG Music Product Manager Joined: May 2020 Posts: 1,655 Victoria, BC	Originally Posted By: Ember - PG Music ...plastic clips... Guitar picks are, hands down, the best tool for the job when it comes to things held together with plastic clips. They're cheap as chips too! I work here

Re: So easy to get fooled. I thought my computer was toast Simon - PG Music #673526 09/17/21 01:50 PM Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca. jazzmammal OP Veteran
OP jazzmammal Veteran Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,687 Redondo Beach, Ca.	Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music Originally Posted By: Ember - PG Music ...plastic clips... Guitar picks are, hands down, the best tool for the job when it comes to things held together with plastic clips. Another reason us keyboard players didn't get the chicks... Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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