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Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? #674088 09/20/21 07:21 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17 S StevieB OP Enthusiast
OP StevieB Enthusiast S Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17	Hi, I'm wondering if there is a way to get the BIAB Soloist to follow a midi track written into the Melodist exactly note for note? For example, if I think up an intro guitar riff in my head, and then enter those notes into the melodist, can I then get the soloist to follow that melody line exactly so I end up having the intro riff sound like a real guitar and with the exact notes and only the notes I want? Could this be done with a guitar Real Track? I'm happy for BIAB to work around the chords and have license to vary the instrumentation, drum fills etc, as required within the body of the song, but I would like certain parts of the song to have a guitar (or possibly another instrument) play note for note what I've composed in my head. I'm an average acoustic guitarist and don't have the ability (or guitar) to play the riff myself. For previous songs I've written, I've been able to explain to a musician (usually guitarist) exactly what I'm after and then work with them to create and record it.

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? StevieB #674157 09/21/21 04:15 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,928 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,928 Winston Salem, NC USA	No. Band-in-a-Box can not use a RealTrack to create an audio file of a MIDI riff. Band-in-a-Box uses a soft synth for audio playback of a MIDI track. Jim Fogle - 2026 BiaB (Build 1217) RB (Build 4) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? StevieB #674160 09/21/21 04:30 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,138 Essex England Bob Calver Veteran
Bob Calver Veteran Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,138 Essex England	RealTracks are precorded phrases and licks which BIAB picks and chooses to creat a guitar part. if the musician didn't play it, you can get it to play as audio. However, for what you want to do,midi allows you to play any notes or riffs. If you use a midi keyboard you can play in the riff at a slow speed and create and edit it until you get it right. Then, what affects the sound is the quality of the synth playing the midi notes. Even on the TTS1 (the GM synth that lots of us use) the guitar sounds are a little unconvincing. You can however buy vst guitars that will sound better. watch the video here to get the main idea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw5v7JRWUmo

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? StevieB #674174 09/21/21 06:15 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina David Snyder Veteran
David Snyder Veteran Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina	What you are looking for is a high end guitar sampler. There are a lot of good acoustic and electric samplers coming out for strumming and picking and they are getting better by the day. Realistic-sounding "lead" samples are just not possible, though, I don't think, because so much goes into a good acoustic or electric lead in terms of how aggressive or light you are with your touch, etc., whether you use vibrato, bends and so forth. It becomes an expression of the artist's soul. That is hard to program. A good acoustic lead does not have to be fancy. Eric Clapton doesn't actually play a lot of notes in one of his leads, it is all about HOW he plays them. For acoustic leads, if you can play, I would encourage to simply practice an hour a day and learn how to do it yourself. Primarily, because it is fun and it will make you feel good. David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers https://davidsnydersongs.com/ https://spoti.fi/359Gigs www.davidsnydermusic.com/ www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel https://www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? StevieB #674244 09/21/21 08:18 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17 S StevieB OP Enthusiast
OP StevieB Enthusiast S Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17	Thanks for the replies. I was hoping that the soloist could be programmed to follow the melodist as it has the following features, which on the surface looked interesting for the result I'm looking for: - There is a setting for the % the Melody Influences Solo. There is not much detail in the manual as to how this actually works. I tried this but couldn't get the effect I was after. -There is also a custom soloist setting where you can program a lot of features but it looks quite complex and not for the faint hearted. -There is also a soloist wizard where it seems you can play any keys on the keyboard and the soloist will play a solo in the same rhythm and timing of what your fingers play. I was also thinking of whether using a midi super track rather than a Real track as the soloist could work (maybe for a piano soloist as there are no midi super tracks for lead guitar). I'll try all the options that are in the soloist settings, and even if it is a useless exercise, I'll learn something on the way. Thanks for your suggestions on the equipment that could help produce what I'm looking for - I'll investigate these as well.

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? StevieB #674312 09/22/21 06:21 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina David Snyder Veteran
David Snyder Veteran Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina	Check out these two editing functions. Not exactly what you are looking for but it is interesting. If you are going to dabble with this let me know what you find out. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) Soloist edit1.png (258.81 KB, 98 downloads) solo edit 2.png (693.39 KB, 4 downloads) David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers https://davidsnydersongs.com/ https://spoti.fi/359Gigs www.davidsnydermusic.com/ www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel https://www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? StevieB #674394 09/22/21 07:00 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17 S StevieB OP Enthusiast
OP StevieB Enthusiast S Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17	Thanks for that David, I'll let you know if I can make it work in anyway. The VST guitar from guitar from AMPLE as suggested by Bob Calver would also work. Plenty to investigate...

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? StevieB #674449 09/23/21 03:15 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina David Snyder Veteran
David Snyder Veteran Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina	Stevie, The VST from Ample sounds great, but an acoustic player, will, of course, say it doesn't not sound "lifelike"--at least for leads. But of course they will say that, right? What I find interesting about the screenshots I sent, is it SEEMS you can change the NOTES in those Real TRACK solos. If that is the cause, and you can get it to work, that is a game changer. I don't have time to mess with it right now, but if in fact you can generate a solo, and then go back and change some of the NOTES in it, that opens up new vistas. I already found you can change the phrasing (legato for example) in the the main menu pop up. That in itself is cool. So, if you fiddle with changing notes and it works, let me know!! David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers https://davidsnydersongs.com/ https://spoti.fi/359Gigs www.davidsnydermusic.com/ www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel https://www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? StevieB #674474 09/23/21 05:08 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,928 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,928 Winston Salem, NC USA	David, You can edit a RealTrack notation all you want but it's wasted work. The changes will disappear as soon as you regenerate the track. Let's say after you edit the RealTrack notation you freeze the track. The audio portion of the RealTrack will continue to playback the original RealTrack audio while the notation will no longer accurately represent the track. MIDI directs soft synth audio output while RealTrack audio output directs RealTrack MIDI notation. Jim Fogle - 2026 BiaB (Build 1217) RB (Build 4) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? Jim Fogle #674517 09/23/21 08:32 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina David Snyder Veteran
David Snyder Veteran Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina	I didn't know that. That's weird. Why do they even have this function???? David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers https://davidsnydersongs.com/ https://spoti.fi/359Gigs www.davidsnydermusic.com/ www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel https://www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? StevieB #674524 09/23/21 08:47 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,928 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,928 Winston Salem, NC USA	The editing functions work when you use a MIDI based Soloist. MIDI based Soloist have been around longer than RealTracks. Band-in-a-Box has users that prefer MIDI to RealTracks because MIDI is easy to edit. Jim Fogle - 2026 BiaB (Build 1217) RB (Build 4) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? David Snyder #674623 09/23/21 10:44 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17 S StevieB OP Enthusiast
OP StevieB Enthusiast S Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17	David, Thanks for your reply. I think the way I'll approach it is to create a custom soloist in the style of guitar I'm after and then just work through all the settings and see if it can follow a simple midi track. I've had BIAB for a number of years without really delving into it very deeply. I have more time at the moment, so will try and see what I can figure out with my limited knowledge. Cheers, Steve.

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? David Snyder #674727 09/24/21 11:24 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2017 Posts: 2,989 BC Ember - PG Music PG Music Staff
Ember - PG Music PG Music Staff Joined: Jun 2017 Posts: 2,989 BC	Originally Posted By: David Snyder I didn't know that. That's weird. Why do they even have this function???? RealTracks that load with notation have what is referred to as RealCharts. As an example, with the ones we released for RealDrums, the MIDI that makes up these RealCharts can actually be used as the basis for MIDI drum parts. In Band-in-a-Box, the MIDI that makes up the RealCharts can be copied to a "Utility" track in the 2021 version of the program, where it can trigger a MIDI drum patch. In the DAW plugin version of Band-in-a-Box, the MIDI can be dragged right from the plugin into a track in the DAW, where you can then also apply a MIDI drum patch. So it does have some uses! Hopefully that helps. Cheers, Ember

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? Ember - PG Music #674730 09/24/21 12:01 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina David Snyder Veteran
David Snyder Veteran Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina	Ember thanks! David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers https://davidsnydersongs.com/ https://spoti.fi/359Gigs www.davidsnydermusic.com/ www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel https://www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? Jim Fogle #674731 09/24/21 12:03 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina David Snyder Veteran
David Snyder Veteran Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,442 North Carolina	Jim, So close... So close and yet so far. Maybe I was just Just wishing on a star... But I am sure if PG can do all they have done.... they can make this happen...one day sometime after 2021 David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers https://davidsnydersongs.com/ https://spoti.fi/359Gigs www.davidsnydermusic.com/ www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel https://www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? Jim Fogle #674771 09/24/21 05:30 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17 S StevieB OP Enthusiast
OP StevieB Enthusiast S Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17	Jim, so from what you're saying then, all the functions such as getting the soloist to follow the melody in % terms and other advanced editing functions, only really apply if the soloist is a midi track? Have I got that right?

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? StevieB #674878 09/25/21 01:33 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,928 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,928 Winston Salem, NC USA	StevieB, correct. Your description matches my understanding. Your idea to use MIDI SuperTrack instead of a RealTrack should work. The main limitation I can think of is you will want to keep the playback track that contains the MIDI SuperTrack frozen except for when you are editing the MIDI. The differences between MIDI generated by a style and MIDI generated by a MIDI SuperTrack are where the MIDI originates and how the MIDI is created. MIDI styles contain one or more MIDI pattern generators. The patterns are created or edited by using the StyleMaker (File > StyleMaker). I know the StyleMaker is a powerful tool but I haven't used it. MIDI SuperTracks contain a MIDI riff or MIDI musical phrase recorded while a session musician played a chart. MIDI SuperTracks also have a MIDI sound module and MIDI patch selected by PG Music. The UltraPAK and Audiophile editions include all package MIDI SuperTracks. A forum member, Icelander, performed some Melody track tests. He found that when the Melody track has a MIDI melody, RealTrack generation was influenced by the data in the Melody track MIDI. So when you're having trouble getting RealTracks to do what you want, try entering a simple MIDI melody. A thought. The UltraPAK or Audiophile editions come with more than 800 RealTrack solos. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) Clipboard24 StyleMake.jpg (72 KB, 33 downloads) StyleMaker Menu Clipboard25 RealTracks Picker Sort on Solo.jpg (230.87 KB, 32 downloads) RealTracks Picker filter on "Solo" Jim Fogle - 2026 BiaB (Build 1217) RB (Build 4) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: Can the Soloist create a Real track that follows the Melodist midi track note for note? Jim Fogle #674935 09/25/21 09:12 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17 S StevieB OP Enthusiast
OP StevieB Enthusiast S Joined: Sep 2016 Posts: 17	Thanks Jim, I sort of get what you're saying. I have the 2020 UnltraPak so have the features you mentioned. I guess one of the limitations is that if I put my midi melody on the Melody Track and then try and create that exact melody on the soloist track using a Midi Supertrack as the soloist instrument, I can't do anything like a lead guitar as there are no Midi Supertracks for such an instrument. I'm trying to write modern country orientated music and so a lead guitar riff at the intro and throughout the song is important. I know what I want the exact notes to be and their timing, but creating it is the problem. I'm not after perfection so maybe a VST guitar would be the way to go, and use BIAB for the all the other parts of the song which don't have to be so specific. I haven't written much for a while, but am looking to write more in the future. Here's a couple of things I did in a studio and was able to get the riff played as I wanted: https://soundcloud.com/stevebarnesmusic/in-tune https://soundcloud.com/stevebarnesmusic/going-home Getting songs done in a studio is expensive, so if I can get it worked out using BIAB it would be great.

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