(note RB = realand.) before someone asks, i decided to post this topic here in this forum, as i feel the readership is probably higher.
why did i decide to post this ?..
1.because yesterday useing rb i was reminded once again the tremendous power of rb, ...and because 2.reading the long contemporary modern pop songs thread elsewhere on these pg forums, i was left wondering if modern pop song creators who are also users new to pg possibly have not explored rb's power. also because rb is included free..i wonder if some people are doing a great disservice to themselves by not bothering to delve into all its features, or i suspect even ever booting rb up. 3. most of the talk on these forums is mostly centered around biab. biab this n that etc. thus i wonder if certain new users ever bother with rb. a shame imho if they never use rb.
let me say on these forums there are more than a few long term rb users like moi. who realise how wonderfull rb is. one leading user is rharv. and i dont profess to have his understanding in depth of the product....ive just developed my own methods over the years.
so, LETS GET AT IT...THE CASE FOR REALBAND.RB 1. it has features you wont find in any daws that are competitors to pg. even very high priced daw software. (as far as i'm aware currently. correct me if i'm wrong.) why ?..heres why ? 2. i invite anyone to open up rb, and go to traks view and, if youve never done it, right clik on a trak with the mouse. as a result youll be presented with a big list of actions. now some might say its inelegent. but please persevere..go to generate and youll see all sorts of audio and midi trak generation options. i know of no other companies daw/multitrack software that has these generation and accompaniement features. lets look further. 3. not only can you generate ad nauseum audio and midi traks. but, in addition you could plug in your favorite third party sample player (see the contemporary long thread) with its huge data base of gigs and gigs of modern sampled sounds and generate traks that way.
eg just a very simple idea i sometimes perform. i generate a midi trak useing the rb (or imported biab) chord sheet, then, useing a plug in i can audition and generate tracks useing the sounds in the plug in triggered via midi. if youve become more comfortable useing your daw youve used for years before coming to pg you have up to 48 traks in rb you can generate, then export into your fav daw for example.
................................................... in conclusion, ive only had time to touch on some of rb's deep features. other long time rb users can add their own if they wish.
THE KEY to enjoying rb is really understanding all its features/menus/various views AND PARTICULARLY RIGHT CLIK OVER A TRAK....to expose the long list of actions/options. let me say, dont discount rb, it does a lot of things pg's competition dont. which probably explains why some mac users would liker a mac version. and to those contemporary song creators who want more modern sound pictures in pg's products...just use a plug in sample player with a big data base of modern sound samples.
best to everyone. i like realband old muso
ps. what a HOOT. after i posted this i noticed pg have posted a new version of rb. jeez i must have esp/be psychic. lol. for those sceptics amongst us, please note i'm just an end user like every other pg user with no links to pg.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/05/2107:45 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
I use RB and frankly can't see why I would need another DAW. But then I was bought up on BIAB and RB on floppies and learnt from day 1 to use the two together. I know lots of people now use the BIAB plugin but i'd be surprised if there's anything you can do with the plugin and a DAW you can't do with BIAB and RB working together.
With muso, i think there are lots of people using the plugin and a DAW who have never opened RB.
maybe they are coming from using a DAW and adding BIAB as an extra resource. RB is a fabulous program and quite intuitive and user friendly even if people think the GUI is flat and unexciting.
I've been a Reaper user for about 10 years and have limited experience with other DAWs. I have tried more than once to use Realband and found it to be sluggish in its operation and limited in its functionality. As far as I can see its only advantage over modern DAWs is the ability to load RealTracks and with the VST, well, even that advantage is fading.
I'm not posting this to be argumentative but instead to suggest to new users who might read your glowing review that they try a more modern DAW with the VST before settling for RB. There are many more powerful functions and modern features available in free and cheap DAWs such as Reaper.
JAOM, I've had a quick go at RB but is does nothing for me. It's ability to work seamlessly with BIAB is undeniable and those amongst us who use almost nothing but BIAB tracks, be they RealTracks, RealDrums, Superstyles etc., will be at home with it I'm sure. I use Reaper, (I came to it via Cakewalk ProAudio which was pretty flash back in the early 2000s), which does cost money, ($60), but it's cheap, super powerful and does just about everything you've mentioned. It's no accident the PG have developed the BIABVST.
In the end it's what one is comfortable with/what doesn't disrupt the work/creativity flow.
Were PG to make more aspects of the BIAB/RB nexus proprietary they'd lose new business. Were they to discontinue RB they'd lose current custom. I think their approach is good...keep it updated and 64bit capable so that it can use the BIAB stuff and they can continue to sell the annual updates and extra Paks without alienating those who use other gear.
I think, in many ways, RB suits many folk in the Users Showcase as they are happy to make & bake in the same kitchen and that's a pretty strong demographic for PG but not one that's likely to grow.
Last edited by rayc; 10/05/2107:54 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I had a lot of crashes with the 32bit, and yes I think that is why the BBPlugin came about, but I haven't had those crashes in the now 64bit version. It has been liked as you can see there is a website dedicated to it, though it could be updated and maybe it could include the BBPlugin.
when i started this thread i wondered if there would be people who questioned me re rb. the shame of it is that users new to pg seeing your posts now might not bother opening up rb. thus i feel missing some very nice features. (i'll get to reaper, as i'm a long time avid user/early adopter (v0.99) after haveing addressed rb. )
so heres my REPLY re rb. (firstly let me preface my reply by saying i have no idea of the internal codeing of rb.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. reasons for sluggishness might vary. i respectfully suggest that running rb on an optimised pc or one purpose built for recording studios that never sees the net , with high speed processors like ryzens/threadrippers rated on cpubenchmarket.net at 20,000 (and useing high speed nvme or m.2 ssd's) is going to be different probably than say a slow one drive laptop whose processor is rated on cpubenchmark.net at 3,000. maybe rharv, who is the rb guru imho can comment on how his ryzen performs with rb. user Bob upthread is obviously happy with rb.
2. if anyone had read my past rb wishlists i had suggested, to speed things up, to have an option to turn off waveform draws when genning traks from RT's etc. i suspected on slower pc's genning lots of traks from RT's AT THE SAME TIME might be an issue. overall i feel, if one is running an older pc thats at the same time running other non rb tasks in the background...this might make an impact.
EVEN GIVEN THE ABOVE, i still feel that rb has a lot of nice features, and very unique features that merit a new user at least trying it out. as i said unique features its daw competitors dont have. even higher priced daws costing large money. (its interesting that pipeline set up an rb site on the web nice stuff pipeline/respect.)
yes rb has some quirks, but what doesnt ? youll see on various daw users forums users complain about lots of their daws various aspects.. which brings me nicely to talk about REAPER. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ as far as i understand it, how reaps came about was the developer looked at the daw offerings at the time, and said i can do better. i was an early adoptor, with many others at v0.99. a very early release. many big studio buds ridiculed me and said "it'll never last" etc etc. i feel vindicated.
full disclosure...us early adoptors like myself were makeing all sorts of suggestions way way back to the dev. it was obvious that lots of people werent happy with their music software at that time. the one i'm kicking myself i didnt suggest was the folder concept. brilliant. anyhoo ive been a user ever since. its brilliant at what it does.
but it must be understood that people who say that other daws are more nimble/less sluggish than rb...the other daws dont have the auto accompany feature which i suspect is not trivial such programming. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
in conclusion i avidly use both reaps and rb, depending on my need for a feature as well as biab. if anyone has seen my crazy songs in the showcase youll see in the description that on all of them i used the biab/rb/reaps combo. whether the songs are any good, i'll let others be the judge of that.
but those 3 products have been used now on 90 original songs, and its been a fun time useing all 3 over many years. note i would post more songs, but ive decided to trickle them out every few months as i'm sensitive to the fact that lots of my fellow users post songs.
and let me say ive heard songs on the showcase from my fellow users way better than what i often hear in the top 100. i think the showcase is a lovely friendly collegial forum. and kudos to pg for hosting it.
best to all, over and out, and whatever your tools...just go make some songs. i'll continue to use the biab/rb/reaps combo.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/06/2112:43 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
RealBand is like any other DAW in that it has advantages and disadvantages when compared to other DAWs. Some people love it and it is their only DAW. Some people only use it occasionally while some people hate it and don't use it at all.
My workflow is BiaB to my DAW Studio One Pro. I rarely use RB but that doesn't make RB a terrible DAW. It just means my workflow maybe different from yours. I also don't use any other DAW.
I have always said 'if you have a PC and don't already have a favorite DAW then learn and use RB'.
The bottom line is that no one can listen to a song and tell what DAW or DAWs were used.
YMMV
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school. Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I usually laugh out loud when I read these type of posts and I wonder if it is just me.
To me RealBand serves as very useful purpose as a TOOL. Let me explain where I think it fits.
1.) RealBand will generate, ugh, Real Tracks. Last time I checked, Reaper and Cakewalk and Studio One do not do that. (I like the BIAB VST but I don't use it that much. It is cleaner for me to work in RealBand until my tracks are ready.)
2.) Real Band will open a BIAB file. Last time I checked, aforementioned DAWs will not.
3.) My workflow (if I use Real tracks) is normally this: BIAB basic file, open it up in RB, add extra tracks if I want, export .wavs, then import into Cakewalk.
4.) I LOVE recording audio in RB because it is so easy to edit, copy, paste, manipulate. Way easier than Cakewalk, to me. It records great audio. I MIX in Cakewalk. I RECORD in RB.
5.) Audio Chord Wizard works great for me in RB. The other day I recorded a pretty complicated Flamenco original in RB.
Then I turned on ACW and let it rip. It was pretty accurate. If you are analyze something you RECORD there at tempo it seems to be super accurate. But FIXES on the fly were super easy as I listened to the track and corrected a bar here and there in just seconds.
THEN I chose a backing Flamenco style. It synced up perfectly. Song is ready to mix.
I challenge anyone to try this in Pro Tools.
So, I see everything as just another tool. Good old Real Band will generate tracks and midi charts for those tracks for you. What's not to love???
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
Pipeline, is this still a valid website? My Norton antivirus is blocking access to it with the following warning:
This is a known dangerous webpage. It is highly recommended that you do NOT visit this page.
Can you advise.
Thanks Jeff
Originally Posted By: MarioD
... I'm using Firefox and MS Security (Defender) and I have no problem with that site. You may be getting a false positive with Norton.
FYI - I quit using Norton years ago because of problems like this.
I stopped using Norton because it was like a virus itself taking over the computer. The site has some flash videos that maybe sending Norton paranoid and having panic attacks .
It's kept active as there are a lot of UserTracks there, maybe I could just strip it down and have just the UserTracks there ? what do you guys think ??
David Snyder interesting positive post. i use rb very similar to yourself. what processor are you useing with rb david ?
Rayc. re "promote". sigh, well no that wasnt my intention.
as there are so many threads centered on biab i felt it might be nice to have a discussion about rb, and what one can do with it. i was interested in all the ways people use rb.
ray, rb might not be for you. but obviously some of us like it, as you can see. as mario correctly pointed out each daw has its plusses and minuses. in rb's case , its not just the accompany/gen features in the product, but also, there are lots of other features too. i'm curious to see what the 2022 rb version brings.
what i find interesting ray , is that the big name daws have had many many years to include sophisticated auto accompany features, but i dont see them doing it. and i wonder why ? as musicians obviously like the features.
best to you both. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/06/2110:59 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
JAoM, I understand your sigh BUT I reread the thread and, well, your intentions are less than consistently easy to grasp by the end. I won't quote you but the general line is "Look How Good RB IS?" with a response to comments of "This thread could put off a new RB user". How else am I to interpret these things?
You put your position, a good, valid, polymath, renaissance man one too. & I gave my reasons for being limitedly bicultural and the reasons I think PG persists with RB.
Big Name auto-accompaniment - well, the big ones are trying to sell themselves as the choice of SERIOUS recorders, and adopting MIDI plus VSTi is where they've taken it as far as replacing musicians while Garageband and a plethora of iPhone software instances have gobbled up the quick n easy song building/backing making world...hell, even BIAB went with a PEDAL for a bit. Different demographics/different market strategy, different cork sniffing.
Last edited by rayc; 10/07/2112:26 AM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Rayc. jeez, i dont want to get into a brouhaha. and i DO appreciate all your efforts in the user showcase. as i said these forums are loaded with biab discussions. cant we for once just discuss rb ? and how folks use it ? maybe new pg users might find it of interest.
maybe its us users who started out on powertraks years ago before rb that take to rb. like rharv and myself. dunno.
i only wish you the best. om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
I think this may be the very last post I ever do on this topic, or others related to it.
I am left simply scratching my head because I truly do not understand the questions of the debate. And there are so many of them. Over and over.
It is all in front of your face.
This is what RealBand does that other DAWS do NOT do. All in ONE PLACE. Until you are ready to export. (And MIX the tracks in another DAW if that is what you want to do. Unless, of course, you want to play the cello yourself.)
YOU CAN ADD .WAV FALL PARTS BY BAR AND COMPOSE INSTANTLY, ALMOST IN REAL TIME, TRACK BY TRACK. ALL LAID OUT FOR YOU TO SEE.
And, IT GIVES YOU THE MIDI IN CASE YOU WANT TO RUN THEM THROUGH A VST.
Any composer I know, or songwriter, would take ONE look at this and go "Holy *()*)(*)*()."
You either see it or you don't.
HOWEVER, I do think PG Music should fix some little annoying things that have been mentioned for years, so there would be no need to leave the RB DAW unless you wanted to. Simple things, like saving VST settings reliably. It can't be that hard. But for track generation it is a goldmine so I am not complaining. That will be my view til Jesus comes back.
Peace out.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
reasons for sluggishness might vary. i respectfully suggest that running rb on an optimised pc or one purpose built for recording studios that never sees the net , with high speed processors like ryzens/threadrippers rated on cpubenchmarket.net at 20,000 (and useing high speed nvme or m.2 ssd's) is going to be different probably than say a slow one drive laptop whose processor is rated on cpubenchmark.net at 3,000.
The solution to sluggish performance is NOT "get a faster computer" when comparable DAWs do NOT suffer from the same sluggishness.
the shame of it is that users new to pg seeing your posts now might not bother opening up rb.
Another shame would be if new users settled for RB as a DAW without trying more modern, feature-rich software. Really, my only suggestion is don't settle for the bundled free program that is not even offered for sale separately. Try out some DAWs and see which one works best for you.
Except for working with proprietary real tracks - none that I can see. VST had taken a good step forward in the past 2 years, making RB near obsolete.
For a new user, I would suggest not even bother with it, and start learning BIAB and Plugin. Maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty sure most of new users will not use RB. To be on par with even free Cakewalk, RB needs thousands of hours in programming and testing.
Did I try it, yes, about half a dozen times or so. If it was me, I would stop development...as of today and just keep it "alive" for those who are used to it and focus on fixing and consolidating items in BIAB, VST and of course producing amazing RTs. Why? because PGmusic is a smaller company and developer resources are limited.
I recognize that RB is a tool, and I deeply respect Peter G. for walking extra mile keeping long backers happy, but that is about the only positive things I can say about RB, besides that it is free... but so is Cakewalk.
P.S. Muso, having a fast PC will not solve issues with RB.
Ok--explain to me how you QUICKLY use the BIAB VST to add Real tracks BY MEASURE, stacked in a visual row like I have posted above, which is an Arrangement, if say you want an Arrangement that has 30 additional parts, of oh let's say, only four or five bars. I have heard some of your great stuff and I know you are arranging, not ripping off demos, so I can't believe you are saying this. You of all people!
Go ahead, I'm waiting....
OK, I see you are back. How was that? Fun??
So, what makes RealBand "obselete" now?
Did you just want to generate 5 tracks all of the same length and call it a day man?
PG. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS NONSENSE AND DO NOT MAKE REALBAND OBSELETE.
Thanks.
Whew!!This is driving me NUTS y'all.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
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