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If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? #680204 10/30/21 01:38 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 177 BackingTrack OP Apprentice
OP BackingTrack Apprentice Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 177	A naive question I am sure, but why are there all the MIDI files and offerings in each level of BIAB, when RealTracks is the really unique feature of this program? Thanks for help on this newbie question. Perhaps, this might be an answer: Maybe BIAB can open .sng files where there are a zillion of those in freely available real book collections that other MIDI backing track programs use...

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680207 10/30/21 01:57 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,350 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,350 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	I think this answer could go on for days. I'll start with history. BIAB was created in the early 1990s. RealTracks were created in 2008. BIAB doesn't delete styles and songs, only adds them. That alone accounts for the large number of MIDI offerings. Then there is the fact that MIDI can be manipulated in a way RealTracks are not. Some users only use MIDI in BIAB. When used with a good quality MIDI synth, it can sound very good, and be made to play just about anything. There's more, much more. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680212 10/30/21 02:15 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 177 BackingTrack OP Apprentice
OP BackingTrack Apprentice Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 177	Wow Matt, great answer and very clarifying. I now get it. I didn't know that history or how some users use the program differently. So then, that brings up a followup question. I have a large collection of Real Book MIDI songs that play in the free jjazzlab application. They are in the form of .sng files. Can those be played or imported into BIAB and played with BIAB's MIDI capabilities. (I can't find anything about this with a long Google search) If so, this would probably make BIAB just ideal for me, being able to play the MIDI songs I already have and create my own songs with RealTracks. There doesn't seem to be available a free realbook in the native BIAB file. Thank you for your continuing help! Last edited by BackingTrack; 10/30/21 02:17 PM.

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680218 10/30/21 02:52 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,350 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,350 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Jjazzlab reads BIAB files but I don’t think the reverse is true. I expect Jjazzlab must be able to export MIDI or Music XML. There are RealBooks out there that are of questionable quality. Since royalties and copyright are involved, anything of quality will not be free. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680220 10/30/21 03:27 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 177 BackingTrack OP Apprentice
OP BackingTrack Apprentice Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 177	Ahhh you are right. Didn't know you could do that. Yes, I was able to export from jjazzlab to a .mid file. From reading the BIAB user guide, then I assume I would be able to import this into BIAB? Am I on track here? Matt,thank you for your patience with me. I am learning in leaps and bounds and am very excited now about joining this community. Your fast answers along with other folks shows me this is a great place. I guess it just makes sense for me to wait just a bit for the 2022 launch in the anticipated coming 4 weeks or so. Last edited by BackingTrack; 10/30/21 03:28 PM.

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680233 10/30/21 09:16 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,138 Essex England Bob Calver Veteran
Bob Calver Veteran Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,138 Essex England	if you are importing midi files, i certainly find it easier to import into RealBand. you'll see each midi isntrument more clearly and on a separate track. RB can interpret the chords and you can still generate RTs to add to the mix. don't take my word for it, to see the difference, import a midi into BIAB and then import the same midi into RB.

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? Bob Calver #680242 10/31/21 12:12 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 41 UK PatrickS Enthusiast
PatrickS Enthusiast Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 41 UK	Another huge advantage of midi is that it allows you to use any virtual instrument which recognizes midi as an input source. BIAB 2025 Ultrapak, Mixcraft Pro 10.5

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680249 10/31/21 12:33 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,606 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Veteran
Gordon Scott Veteran Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,606 Hampshire, UK	Originally Posted By: BackingTrack From reading the BIAB user guide, then I assume I would be able to import this into BIAB? Am I on track here? Yes. BiaB has some tweaks on the import and/or Open_Special to deal with bar alignment with count-ins and the like, and also some controls to manage what gets imported to where. Importing patch changes and the like are honoured in BiaB, but can confuse me, at least :-) Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680261 10/31/21 03:18 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,446 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,446 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	I'm one of those mostly MIDI users. While the RealTracks are quite good, and PG had done a great job with them, I find them lacking. Not lacking in substance, they are excellent. Lacking in the ability to edit them. MIDI is thousands of times more editable than audio. Furthermore, I think the output of BiaB is the best auto-accompaniment output on the market. I write styles for BiaB, and I've written for others and some auto accompaniment keyboards as well. However, it's only about as good as a decent band, you can turn that not-quite-ready-for-prime-time output of BiaB into something that sounds like a top-notch band with some editing. Edits can be simple or complex after exporting the BiaB MIDI and importing it into a sequencer or DAW. I believe they would also work in Real Band, but I don't use RB that much. Instrument changes: Say you like that clean electric guitar part, but you would really like it on a distorted guitar or an acoustic? Click - click - it's done. Or an acoustic piano to a Rhodes, or a clav, or a jazz guitar? Click -click Or that brass part on a sax section? Click click Or the ride cymbal on the drum kit to be the cymbal bell, or a cowbell, or a shaker? "Exploded" the drum kit and transpose the cymbal to whatever you want. Or you might not like the chord inversion BiaB chose, and you want a particular note on top? Easily done. You can rearrange the drum rolls, or completely eliminate one when you change from A to B substyle or whenever you like. It's copy and paste time. There are thousands of real simple edits like this you can do with MIDI that are impossible or near-impossible in Audio. I could write an entire book. For slightly more advanced: So many songs have 'song specific licks' in them, they can be inserted into the parts using MIDI, and you can use the same instrument voices - exactly The intros and endings in BiaB run from decent to sloppy, are too short, and very generic. You can insert your own intros and endings using the very same voices as the rest of the song. Some songs have rhythmic kicks, much more complex than the simple shots in BiaB, and you can insert these also with exactly the same instruments. You can hold a note as long as you like, for 12 bars if you want You can exaggerate the groove You can increase or decrease individual drum notes like the 2 and 4 of the snare only Instead of doing changes in tempo/volume/etc on a measure by measure basis, you can do real crescendos, diminuendos, accelerandos, ritardandos, etc. sometimes harmonies are too perfect, you can put the highest part in a horn section a tiny bit sharp, the lows note a tiny bit flat adjust others to the curve, and it ends up like stretch tuning a piano, and sounds more realistic. Again I could go on and on and on and on A good MIDI synthesizer can sound more than 90% as real as a good player on a real instrument. But tone is actually less than half the story. After all, a lot of singers and instrument players with less than stellar tone have made zillions of dollars. Plus, people have and still enjoy music on everything from the historic 45RPM records to cassette tapes to mp3s and a lot in between. What people really listen to is expression. You can amp up the expression of a MIDI file in zillions of ways that are unavailable to audio files. I like to take the very good output of BiaB and turn it into something more personalized and, if I do my job right, better sounding. As I do this more and more, I actually learn a lot about music by making discoveries on what I did wrong and what I did right. But then I like to play music and play with my music. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the Real Tracks. If you like the output and don't want to play with the music after BiaB generates it, enjoy. There is more than one right way to make music. My way isn't for everybody and isn't necessarily the best way. It's just my way. Insights and incites by Notes ♫ Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? Notes Norton #680269 10/31/21 04:22 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,040 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,040 Hamlin NY	I am a MIDI user also and I completely agree with Notes. I just couldn't say it a eloquently as Notes said it. One thing I will add is that you can take a RealTrack and convert it to MIDI. That way you will have all of the advantages MIDI offers. In fact in one of my latest songs I took a Celtic harp RT, converted it to MIDI, then chose an orchestra harp sound, i.e. same RT notes but a totally different sound. I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680283 10/31/21 06:35 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2017 Posts: 745 Ohio DebMurphy Journeyman
DebMurphy Journeyman Joined: Oct 2017 Posts: 745 Ohio	I am just now learning MIDI and I find it another way of creating music. Fun! ...Deb

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680311 10/31/21 09:46 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,659 Wauconda DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,659 Wauconda	I would like to include myself with Mario and Notes in terms of BIAB midi useage. With that I need to add a big kudos to MidiSuper Tracks. I reserve a song track for MST as part of my song template in Reaper and I bring one of these from BIAB whether I use it or not. BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680321 10/31/21 10:17 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,138 Essex England Bob Calver Veteran
Bob Calver Veteran Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,138 Essex England	midi is great for adding an extra instrument. i do it in RealBand. as Matt says there are hundreds of midi styles and some have really nice midi performances of various insruments. only today i added a string part using a midi style i've had for 15 years but which just suited the song i was working on that was all RealTracks. before RealTracks PG music really pushed to boundaries of miid styles.

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680346 10/31/21 11:43 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,350 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,350 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	More MIDI SuperTracks is high on my list of hopes. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: If RealTracks are the real benefit of BIAB, why do we care about all the MIDI files? BackingTrack #680408 11/01/21 01:44 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,446 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,446 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	What MIDI styles do best: Auto-accompaniment. The background of most pop songs consist of mostly repetitious parts by the instruments, with some variables for situations like a V7 to I chord sequence at the end of a phrase, a ii V7 I progression, and so many others. This is what the StyleMaker in BiaB does very well. Backing instruments usually suppress their individuality to work together as a group. MIDI instruments do this naturally, in fact you have to inject personal expression into them via the continuous controllers and other means to get them to speak as individuals. What MIDI instruments do with more difficulty: Solo parts. It's not that they cannot play solo parts, it just takes a better synth and a player who understands how to coax expression out of that synth. For anything other than melodic percussion instruments like pianos, it takes a skillful player plus a good synth that responds not only to the continuous controllers but does it in a way that mimics the way the instrument responds. I like to play the melody and improv solos myself. That is what is most joyful and creative for me to do. Why let another musician who pre-recorded his/her part have all the fun? If I didn't want to play the melody myself, the ideal would be to use MIDI styles for the background and if there was an appropriate melody RealTrack, use it for the melody. Insights and incites by Notes ♫ Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

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