|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,696
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,696 |
I came across this article on the Taxi.com site. As a songwriter who is not interested in a recording career, I am interested in marketing my songs. I've often wondered just how many of the blessings bestowed on we musicians by PG Music software I should incorporate into my song demos. When is enough enough? The link below came to me from Taxi and I thought that maybe some of you other writers out there might find it an interesting read - it is one man's view. Taxi.comAfter you read this article, I'd be interested in your comments on how you feel about your own demos. And what your aspirations are for your songs.  Cheers - Ian
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,058
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,058 |
Very interesting and useful article. It's very applicable for us since neither my wife nor I are 23 American idol style(nor want to be) singer/songwriters
types.
We are interested in the Gospel segment of music/songwriting and still trying to learn how to get from what we think in a well composed work to the artist that may want to listen to our work.
This is why BIAB is for us a useful tool
Thanks for the link. Wyndham
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,832
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,832 |
Hi Ian,
Thanks for the link. It's an interesting article and makes a lot of sense. I have come across a number of publishers asking for full-band demos, though. I guess that in these cases, you can still pitch the song in the hope that the publisher listens. As is always the case, whatever type of demo, the publisher may or may not listen. I imagine that if you have a bit of a name happening in songwriting, then a stripped down demo might be all that's needed.
I think that using a professional singer is good advice. My thoughts are that ultimately, it will be the singing that stays in a person's head. So if this is strong, it has to be a bonus when submitting the demo.
As a note, I've been to a few Steve Seskin seminars. He's a singer/songwriter and has had 7 number 1 country hits. He always gets his demos professionally recorded and uses a singer other than himself.
Regards,
Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 04/09/10 02:41 PM.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,119
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,119 |
Ian,
I do "ok" with song covers and Biab. I am still waiting for the songwriter gift, LOL. It is a gift and there are a few here, like yourself, who can put pen to the paper. My music is for entertaining myself and a few friends here or there, nothing serious. I think I can hear if a song has "it" or not, most of the time.
I haven't read the article yet, but what I understand of the "Nashville-Song Demo" occupation, they usually prefer their demo songs with just an acoustic guitar version and a vocal melody of the next "hit." That way, they can add their "business end" to it and market it to their intended artist. Just an opinion of mine, though.
The "business end" is making it sound like the intended artist had written it. Putting their "sound" in the song. I am talking Countrified here, btw. Toby Keith, Keith Urban, Willie Nelson etc . . . they all have their own identity in their "sound." Think of it as "branding" a song.
So, if someone is trying to sell a song, the song will stand by itself with its lyric and melody being demo'd on an acoustic guitar. Again, just an opinion here.
Trax
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
I would say that a stripped down demo, played by a real instrumentalist, would go much farther than a BIAB or Real Band-enhanced track. Unless you have a really good ear for orchestration, that is. I hesitate to say this, but there is generally a common thread to the BIAB and RealBand supported demos posted here, IMO: they almost always pile on too much stuff. There's synth horns where there should be no horns. There are lead guitars going on throughout the whole song. There's a piano, B3, a fake acoustic track, a rhythm electric guitar, all going at the same time. There's TC Helicon vocal harmonies. Many times, what should be a gentle ballad is a big giant Dagwood sandwich of layers, most of which just don't belong. And for goodness sakes - please please please remove the count-off stick sounds from the beginning of the song. I'm going to use some songs of a fellow FAWMer, demonstrating when he had it just right, and when he layered in too much. He is a brilliant songwriter and composer - but we feel comfortable critiquing each other's material. His name is Tim Conway. (not that one). Now, he refers to UK English terms (caravan, chips, take-away, etc.) Here is a great demo; 2 minutes - even though the Ukulele is out of tune somewhat: http://www.oddbod.net/dungeness.mp3Let's break it down. It's a great melody. The lyrics evoke emotion and a sense of place and time. There's perhaps 5 or 6 tracks total in this song. I bet you will be singing this song to yourself later aver you take a listen. Everything supports the melody - even the reversed guitar track is a pad that let's the simple melody and words penetrate. Now, here's another one of his tunes, in the style of Ju Ju High Life (sp?): http://www.oddbod.net/patrice.mp3Take a guess at what happened here that makes this one less memorable. The drum track is too busy for this song. In this style of song the guitars almost always carry the rhythm. Only in the bridge/3rd verse section do the drums calm a bit. Tim laid on the tracks too much in this one - even with the hoot whistle and B3 stacked into the sandwich of the two guitars for the last chorus/outro - too much. You won't remember the lyrics to this song, because they got buried in the busy accompaniment. Leaving on a positive note, here is Diamond Mine: http://www.oddbod.net/diamond.mp3Again, perhaps 5-8 total tracks, not all happening at once. This one leaves room for a Queen-type Bohemian Rhapsody monstrous accompaniment right down to just piano and vox. The tune and lyrics stand on their own. There are some melody hooks in this one that will haunt for a day or so. Keep in mind, with the exception of Dungeness, Tim did these songs in max of 2 or 3 days each in the evenings. Do less for more impact. Take a tour through Tim's site for mostly great demos. One thing that you'll notice with Tim's stuff; very wide variety of styles, some retro references, and almost always a great break somewhere in the song that just makes you anticipate the return with all your might.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 04/09/10 09:27 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
The reality is that "either way can work and either way can fall".
For at the bottom of this thing lies the actual song itself. If it can "stand alone" it will likely still get attention. There have been rather recent examples of just that happening.
On the other hand, you should find out what your target wants you to submit. If you are submitting to a house that routinely solicits for fully fleshed out demos, it would be of benefit for you to pursue the same path.
But again, whether your demo is a simple voice-and-guitar or a fullblown production number, it is the songwriting itself that sells the work. Or not.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 17
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 17 |
I am song-writer rather than a performer, although I have played in bands and done some live gigs.
Having just read all the above, it does strike a chord... (pun not actually intended!)
I had already decided to do a number of versions of my best songs:
1. simple backing + 'song'
2. a fuller production (IF and only IF the song actually needs it..)
3. my own version with me performing it
On 1. & 2. above I have decided to use a professional singer as I am sick and tired of people criticising my vocal rather than listening to THE SONG.
As for the selling of the song side, I have worked in Sales & Marketing for twenty years so I have some thoughts on that! Also, I am voraciously reading/listening to any advice that is out there!
Good luck to one and all, including me!
Frage
New to BIAB and just got hold of a 2007 Megapak... but I have been writing songs for quite awhile... most of them hits (of course..) :-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,696
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,696 |
 Thanks all for your input. I must admit I do like building arrangements with this software  . After reading your replies I decided to tour the Taxi site and visit their "Industry Listings". Publishing companies looking for TV placements suggest and stress good quality home recordings as acceptable demos with good instrumentation and universal lyrics and no uncleared samples. They want ready for air. There seem to be a lot of publishers looking for material for TV/Film usage. It's the big thing. Fewer listings asking for individual songs for recording artists. Personally while I'd like to hire a singer for the some of the songs I write that I have trouble singing myself, lack of funds does stand in the way . . . still looking for an affordable pitch correction software to smooth out the bumps in the road.  Frage - I like your approach - if you plan your production well - for several eventualities - then you're ahead of the game. And like Mac suggests, respond with whatever they're asking. It's all a longshot. Cheers - Ian
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,058
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,058 |
Ian, I believe the vocals are the most important part in that you can lose an audience very quickly with an off note or 2. There are at least 10 local bluegrass bands and only one or two have good lead vocals, but.. good vocalist are out there.
Instead of hiring, check out some local talent. If you find a good vocalist to do the demo it helps them and you and saved money too. You might have to go through a few but it might be worth the trouble. Some churches have some very good talent that won't be found anywhere but there in church.
I thought "Diamond Mine" was interesting but his vocals were swallowed up by the instruments. Now I have a bit of a hearing loss so maybe it was me. I'm just saying what I heard.
The other thing we all need and I at the head of the line is objective criticisms and advice because we hear what we want to hear sometimes. I think my wifes voice is great but I would like to know what the truth is about the quality of her voice. Is it good enough for demos or not, but who do you ask?
Just a few thoughts on a warm Sunday morning . Don't know if it's worth the electrons or not. Wyndham
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll also keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
From overviews of new features and walkthroughs of the 202 new RealTracks, to highlights of XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAKs 18, the 2025 49-PAK, and in-depth tutorials — you’ll find everything you need to explore what’s new in Band-in-a-Box® 2025.
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Mac Videos — we’ll be adding more videos as they’re released!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until July 31, 2025! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!
Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.
Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,304
Posts777,522
Members39,612
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean