MultiRiff has rich functions. Including the newly added silence function. Hopefully, MultiRiff can control Bar a little bit more finely. You can drill down to the four beats of each bar. It is possible to change the input method, such as the control of 1, 2, 3, 4
Or it is already possible, but I don't know how to do it?
In my opinion, this is likely too fine of resolution to be effective. It's better to use the Audio Editor to select, cut and paste sections of audio clips from an audio file or multiple audio files. You have the same 'control' that you're seeking with your request but can perform the task with equal precision but with better clarity, precision and speed.
Or it is already possible, but I don't know how to do it?
It's already possible, but not with multiriffs, you need to use the audio editor window.
In the attached example I've changed the second note of the bass with a guitar realtrack.
It's a nice feature but, like multiriffs, it seems to work only with realtracks, not with realdrums.
I try not to use the audio edit function. Because it will change the color of the orbit and become non renewable. This is a bass. After using edit, the green color changes, I think multiriff is very easy to use. It's perfect if it's more elaborate
Are you saying you would want a unique riff generated for each beat of the measure, or a specific beat? I guess I can see how that might work for a bass part, but I think most RealTracks are phrase-based recordings, so they tend to work more naturally when the full phrase can play itself through.
Chuck Wiggins
BIAB 2023 Win UltraPak, Cakewalk, Windows 10 Pro Custom AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core, Focusrite Scarlett 4x4 interface
I try not to use the audio edit function. Because it will change the color of the orbit and become non renewable. This is a bass. After using edit, the green color changes, I think multiriff is very easy to use. It's perfect if it's more elaborate
Yes, the downside is that when you edit a track, it becomes an "artist track", i.e., a wav file taking up space on your hard disk. On the other hand, that feature offer a much finer control over your track than the feature you're requesting, since you can regenerate single notes, musical phrases or entire bars.
<< Yes, the downside is that when you edit a track, it becomes an "artist track", i.e., a wav file taking up space on your hard disk. On the other hand, that feature offer a much finer control over your track than the feature you're requesting, since you can regenerate single notes, musical phrases or entire bars. >>
Artist Performance Tracks aren't really a 'downside' when all of the benefits it provides are considered including the same disk space that would be required to do the same function in a DAW. In fact, an Artist Performance Track can save disk space by avoiding the possible creation of multiple renders of a RealTrack to edit in a DAW.
Also, it doesn't have to be a Wav file, it can be saved as a m4a file. An Artist Performance Track is a completely unique track that's no longer the RealTrack audio, midi or SuperMidi data and in regard to RealTrack audio, whatever editing is done to the file, isn't contained in the RealTrack audio file that was recorded by a session player. Any edit makes the audio file new and unique and it has to exist somewhere.
Its existence is no different than had a user made a UserTrack or purchased additional RealTracks or converted a midi/SuperMidi track to audio.
Yes, the downside is that when you edit a track, it becomes an "artist track", i.e., a wav file taking up space on your hard dis.....
Why do I want to be more refined. In fact, what I need is silences. I find it very convenient to use multiriff to go to silences.
In addition, sometimes some small melodies and small rhythms need to be more refined. The current situation is that we can only start from the beginning of the bar. I don't like it. I like to go a little bit later and a little bit less. This kind of short riff will make the music more modern. Mainly I think it is not difficult to achieve this now. Just add more options, right? It's a pity that the official can't see this article. How to get the official attention to my article? You help me
Artist Performance Tracks aren't really a 'downside' when all of the benefits it provides are considered including the same disk space that would be required to do the same function in a DAW. In fact, an Artist Performance Track can save disk space by avoiding the possible creation of multiple renders of a RealTrack to edit in a DAW.
I was going to say that BIAB is not a DAW and that, to me, having wav files around is a PIA, because blah blah blah, but...
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
Also, it doesn't have to be a Wav file, it can be saved as a m4a file.
You're absolutely right, I had forgottten this feature. Thanks!
Yes, the downside is that when you edit a track, it becomes an "artist track", i.e., a wav file taking up space on your hard dis.....
Why do I want to be more refined. In fact, what I need is silences. I find it very convenient to use multiriff to go to silences.
In addition, sometimes some small melodies and small rhythms need to be more refined. The current situation is that we can only start from the beginning of the bar. I don't like it. I like to go a little bit later and a little bit less. This kind of short riff will make the music more modern. Mainly I think it is not difficult to achieve this now. Just add more options, right? It's a pity that the official can't see this article. How to get the official attention to my article? You help me
It's easier, more refined and doesn't have to start from the beginning of a bar if you use the Audio Editor. Edits can start a little bit early and go a little bit late using the Editor. You're right, it's not difficult to achieve this now but using the Audio Editor and not the Multiriff. The Audio Editor is not difficult. If you understand how to edit (cut/copy/paste, cross fade, fade in, fade out, mute, unmute, silence and delete and similar tasks) in Studio One then you will understand how to do it in BIAB's Audio Editor.
It's easier, more refined and doesn't have to start from the beginning of a bar if you use the Audio Editor. Edits can start a little bit early and go a little bit late using the Editor. You're right, it's not difficult to achieve this now but using the Audio Editor and not the Multiriff. The Audio Editor is not difficult. If you understand how to edit (cut/copy/paste, cross fade, fade in, fade out, mute, unmute, silence and delete and similar tasks) in Studio One then you will understand how to do it in BIAB's Audio Editor.
However, if you use the audio editing in BIAB, the track will change color, so you can no longer follow the chord changes. I actually only want to use Multiriffs to achieve a more flexible mute function, instead of having to start from the beginning of each BAR
<< However, if you use the audio editing in BIAB, the track will change color, so you can no longer follow the chord changes. I actually only want to use Multiriffs to achieve a more flexible mute function, instead of having to start from the beginning of each BAR >>
That's correct and it's normal behavior. Your idea conflicts mutltiriffs, editing and arranging. You must come to the understanding that the editing you do does not exist in the BIAB program or anywhere on your computer before you create that edit. Edits change color because you have created new audio material. In order to keep the editing changes you've made, this new audio must be preserved somewhere and saved in a way that BIAB recognizes it and loads it whenever you open that file. To fix this, decide on what the chords will be and input those chords to use, then apply multiriffs and edits because they are arranging tools.
PG Music has only served to confuse you by adding the Silence button to the Multififf page. It is only there for the convenience to use RT1152:Silence into your arrangement. It does not create a true multiriff. By definition, a muliriff creates multiple renders of an audio phrase (up to 20) where each render differs from every other render. Using silence does not make multiple and different versions of silence. There is only one silence and it is not an audio phrase. The Multiriff tool is not designed to do the job. It's the wrong tool. There is no shame is learning to use BIAB the way it's designed. Multriff is not an editing tool. It's an arranging tool. BIAB has a very robust Audio Editor and works very much the same as every other audio editor. The Audio Edit Window is the proper place to edit audio.
The proper place to silence the audio on a track is either using Mute/Return to Normal in Bar Settings on the tracks that accept the function or on any track using the Audio Edit Window and editing techniques or using Studio One's editing features to do it. Both BIAB's Audio Editor and Studio One's audio editors can select and silence regions that are less than a bar or beat in length.
In BIAB, both automation or the Silence option in the Edit Menu can select and silence regions less than a beat in length.
The proper place to silence the audio on a track is either using Mute/Return to Normal in Bar Settings on the tracks that accept the function or on any track using the Audio Edit Window and editing techniques or using Studio One's editing features to do it. Both BIAB's Audio Editor and Studio One's audio editors can select and silence regions that are less than a bar or beat in length.
In BIAB, both automation or the Silence option in the Edit Menu can select and silence regions less than a beat in length.
Good points, Charlie. While I agree with the fact that using the audio editor offer many advantages, I also think that a finer control for multitrifs is a reasonable request, and could be useful for some users in certain situations. The key, IMO, is here:
Originally Posted By: swingbabymix
However, if you use the audio editing in BIAB, the track will change color, so you can no longer follow the chord changes.
It appears to me you both are describing the microchords/motif functionality. Particularly when it comes to silencing at the single beat level. Tobin demonstrates that in several of the videos PG Music has published since the 2022 release.
Another point, the track can be reset to follow chord changes if that's desired.
But also understand that if you have a RealTrack and change the chord progression, RealTracks, midi and SuperMidi all regenerate to adjust to the chord progression changes. That's normal behavior. If you want the riff to hold while you make changes to the bar by changing chords, that can be done too. You're working out of sequence to edit audio and freeze the track only to continue to alter the chord progression and song structure. Can you explain what a useful, certain situation would be that's specific to multiriffs?
Another point, the track can be reset to follow chord changes if that's desired.
How to reset? I still can't. Can you tell me with pictures? thanks
----
In fact, the reason I want to do this is just to make it more convenient to mute certain passages. The reason why I want to rely on MultiRiffs is because Bar settings cannot control all the tracks and it is a bit cumbersome to set up.
Can you explain what a useful, certain situation would be that's specific to multiriffs?
That feature would be nice simply for the sake of ease of use. Having the option to regenerate 1, 2 3, or 4 beats from the new multirrifs windows would be, IMO, an intuitive and logic feature, and asking for that feature is, also IMO, reasonable, even if all you can do from the multiriff window is also doable from the audio editing window and even if I, personally, probably wouldn't use it.
Flexibility is key in modern UI design. Every user uses BIAB in a different way, and there are so many different uses of the program as there are users. Being able to do the same thing in different ways and from different (but intuitive) places is a sign of a well-designed, modern, and flexible UI. You're an experienced user who have been introduced to the new BIAB feautres progressively over the years, but think for a moment in a new user who may not know what "Artist tracks" are, and who may not understand why after editing a bar in the audio editor window, the name of the track turns orange, the name of the instrument change to "Artist", and a WAV file appears in the project's folder. Trying to think from this perspective rather than from the perspective of the experienced and advanced user usually helps to desing better and more intuitive UI's
Also, this feature wouldn't breqak any existing functionality, it just would add another option, so I don't really think there's anything wrong with this request.
On the other hand, if the new multiriffs window only adds redundant functionality, what's the whole point, in your opinion, of this new feature? (I'm not even sure if you're implying this, but, but if you are, I'm really interested in your opinion )
Can you explain what a useful, certain situation would be that's specific to multiriffs?
That feature would be nice simply for the sake of ease of use. Having the option to regenerate 1, 2 3, or 4 beats from the new multirrifs windows would be, IMO, an intuitive and logic feature, and asking for that feature is, also IMO, reasonable, even if all you can do from the multiriff window is also doable from the audio editing window and even if I, personally, probably wouldn't use it.
Flexibility is key in modern UI design. Every user uses BIAB in a different way, and there are so many different uses of the program as there are users. Being able to do the same thing in different ways and from different (but intuitive) places is a sign of a well-designed, modern, and flexible UI. You're an experienced user who have been introduced to the new BIAB feautres progressively over the years, but think for a moment in a new user who may not know what "Artist tracks" are, and who may not understand why after editing a bar in the audio editor window, the name of the track turns orange, the name of the instrument change to "Artist", and a WAV file appears in the project's folder. Trying to think from this perspective rather than from the perspective of the experienced and advanced user usually helps to desing better and more intuitive UI's
Also, this feature wouldn't break any existing functionality, it just would add another option, so I don't really think there's anything wrong with this request.
On the other hand, if the new multiriffs window only adds redundant functionality, what's the whole point, in your opinion, of this new feature? (I'm not even sure if you're implying this, but, but if you are, I'm really interested in your opinion )
Well, first thing, if PG Music happens to integrate this wish into a 'new' feature, I'll joyfully embrace it and integrate it to some degree into my work flow. I recently deleted a post of my opinion about what I considered an unnecessary feature that PG staff did in fact include into an update release thus rendering my opinion irrelevant.
Knowing that PG Music is capable of completing disregarding any opinion or reason I may offer against a wish feature, here's my thoughts to why single beat multiriff's aren't feasible.
Let's start with how a riff is defined. A google search turned up many different slight variations of this statement from Marshall.com: "Whether you call it a riff, hook, lick or lead line, the 'riff' is arguably the most important aspect of guitar. A 'riff' is a succession of notes played on guitar to create the main melody of a song"
Phrase, melody line, succession of notes and similar statements all support the fact that the BIAB Multiriff feature is neither designed for nor the correct tool to fulfill this wish even though some think it should simply for "the sake of ease of use." When comparing the Multiriff feature to the Microchord/Motif feature, It's no contest nor is it intuitive or logical. Considering the fact that BIAB already has the flexibility to accomplish this task in several ways using other tools that specifically excel at editing at the beat level or finer resolution as can be done in the Audio Edit Page. To me, editing audio is intuitive and logical to use an Audio Editor. Both the microchord/motif tool and the Audio Edit Page are specific tools for audio editing.
The Multiriff tool is designed to generate phrases, riffs, licks and a succession of notes. It's designed and intended to search for appropriate audio phrases and create up to 20 multiple versions. By design, it will fall short of users, single beat or finer resolution editing.
Speaking of RealTrack audio, the 2022 version of BIAB offers more than 3,500 hours of RT audio. The Multiriff tool has access to ALL of that audio so I can't possibly calculate how many individual beats that's available to a user attempting to quickly, intuitively and logically achieve single beat editing. It's overwhelming. The Multiriff tool generates audio, it doesn't edit it. A user is arranging, not editing. Here again, by design, it will fall short of users, single beat or finer resolution editing.
Thinking from he perspective of a new user being unaware of what "Artist Performance Tracks" are and their purpose is a baseless point because that's no different than this new user is equally unaware of microchords/motif, the multiriff tool and the Audio Edit Page. Which also is no different to even the most experienced user because no one has any previous experience with these new features of microchords/motifs and the completely redesigned multiriffs. There's also many experience users that for years never opened or used the Audio Editor in BIAB preferring to edit in their favorite DAW. The learning curve is there for all of us.
In my singular opinion, there is no point for this 'new' feature that really isn't 'new'. It is redundant functionality that falls short of all of the other methods it's redundant to.
Thanks for your elaborate answer Charlie, I still think it's a reasonable request for the reasons I gave before, but it's always interesting to exchange opinions in a civilised and reasoned way.
In my singular opinion, there is no point for this 'new' feature that really isn't 'new'. It is redundant functionality that falls short of all of the other methods it's redundant to.
Charlie
I just want more detailed control, I think this is not difficult to achieve. Personally, I still don't like audio editing in BIAB.
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