... I think by then we've gone right through the list and it's back to the Maj7 again, though I accept that's a weak argument on my part.
No, it's pretty good, I just thought the same thing myself! But then I wondered about the "mismatch cases" without such octave doubling. Maybe at that point you just get weird names, like the "Frankfurt Heliotrope".
I think 13 is enough to keep track of. And yes, Gordon, add X means only that is X added to a triad, and other normally implied notes are not there. So I would expect Gadd9 to not have the seventh of the chord. Likewise, I expect, as you do, that a 13th chord can have, but may not have, a 7, 9 and / or 11 in it. But it almost certainly will sound the seventh, to give it that "flavor".
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Now I'm working on something in the Charles Ives tradition called the "New England Octave", where you have two notes that are an octave apart but played in different towns.
But couldn't chords greater than n13 be called poly chords? Like CMaj7:DMaj7b9, i.e. C-E-G-B-D-A-C#-Eb. This would make a good cluster chord.
Oh, man, this is so interesting, it raises deep philosophical issues about the nature of musical reality (and I am not being facetious.)
My chord pictured above can be regarded as a C Major with a Bb Major sitting on top of it.
Does that mean that's what it is, really?
Yes that chord could be called a C:Bb poly chord.
Music theory for a guitarist can be very frustrating at times. We can only play up to six notes at a time while mostly we play only 3 to 5 notes, at least in jazz. So your your C:Bb poly chord I could play C-E-Bb-D-G, which is really a C9! Or I could play a Bb-D-F-C, a Bb add9.
I run into this"conflict" a lot when I jam with JonD. JonD is a pianist/keyboardist with lots of theory. Thus what I would call a chord's name he usually adds a number of other chords that contain those 3-5 notes I played on my guitar. We do have fun together trying to find the right chord for our progression. This is where BiaB is a God sent piece of software, i.e. playing around with chords and chord progressions.
As I have told my students learn music theory but don't let it get in the way of your playing. If you ain't playing from the heart then what good is it? YMMV
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
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As I have told my students learn music theory but don't let it get in the way of your playing. If you ain't playing from the heart then what good is it?
Nothing wrong with playing from your head.
If I look at that chord as a polychord comprising a C Major and a Bb Major, it may give me ideas. If I'm playing a guitar solo, I may play along with it as if it were a plain Bb Major instead of a crazy C Something. If I'm writing parts, I may break it up into a C Major for the piano and a Bb Major for the horns.
That kind of idea comes straight out of my cognitive head, in response to the acquisition of an interesting piece of abstract theoretical knowledge. Some might find this cold and cerebral – it sure isn't watching a sunset from the door of a moving freight train – but it warms my own heart, and I'm sure someone could put it to good musical use.
As I have told my students learn music theory but don't let it get in the way of your playing. If you ain't playing from the heart then what good is it?
Nothing wrong with playing from your head.
If I look at that chord as a polychord comprising a C Major and a Bb Major, it may give me ideas. If I'm playing a guitar solo, I may play along with it as if it were a plain Bb Major instead of a crazy C Something. If I'm writing parts, I may break it up into a C Major for the piano and a Bb Major for the horns.
That kind of idea comes straight out of my cognitive head, in response to the acquisition of an interesting piece of abstract theoretical knowledge. Some might find this cold and cerebral – it sure isn't watching a sunset from the door of a moving freight train – but it warms my own heart, and I'm sure someone could put it to good musical use.
I agree with you in that there is nothing wrong with your approach and in fact I do the same thing. My point to my students was when learning theory it is OK to practice it but don't let it get in the way. For instance if they learn a C Dorian mode or an Am Pentatonic scale don't just run the scales while playing a song. IMHO there is nothing worse then having a musician rapidly playing a bunch of scales or arpeggios and not having any melody or feeling (heart) in the lead. YMMV
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
IMHO there is nothing worse then having a musician rapidly playing a bunch of scales or arpeggios and not having any melody or feeling (heart) in the lead.
I read somewhere that John McLaughlin of Mahavishnu Orchestra played guitar using 3 minor pentatonic modes bolted together. He tried to offset the often vacant intellectuality of this by blaming it on The Music (supposedly a spiritual force channelling itself through him) and choking out a lot of screaming dissonant notes. But even as a youth I was not fooled.
Wow, not sure the C9 was ever clarified? This tread really took off.
As a guitarist this is a very popular jazz chord and it is played as a dominate chord, R, 3, b7, 9. Like Mario said, for us guitar players we generally use only 3 note chords except when its Jazz and we use 4 note chords like C9 .
Otherwise, I would consider the voicing for Cadd9 or C2 to be ambiguous unless further clarified. On piano, I would likly play a C triad and add the D as the high note and then look around to see if I get any strange looks. But thats just me.
I reckon a C major triad with a Bb major triad stacked on top is C11.
As I mentioned earlier, though, all those extensions could be flattened or sharpened. Each of them can then be written in a way that someone else could play them, but even then, the voicing can vary.
I once heard someone say "so we're adding extra noteds to the chord and that can only make it better, right?" Erm, well, I see his point, but I think I don't entirely agree :-)
But then one persons tension is another's dissonance. We're balancing arguably boring against comfortable against surprising against shocking.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Wow, not sure the C9 was ever clarified? This tread really took off.
As a guitarist this is a very popular jazz chord and it is played as a dominate chord, R, 3, b7, 9. Like Mario said, for us guitar players we generally use only 3 note chords except when its Jazz and we use 4 note chords like C9 .
Here is what this old man was taught many years ago, from the lowest to the highest note: Cadd9 = C-E-G-D C2 = C-D-E-G Csus2 = C-D-G
The confusion comes in when the Cadd9 and the C2 chords are in different inversions, then you might not be able to tell which is which.
YMMV
Last edited by MarioD; 12/28/2104:01 PM.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
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But thats just me. 
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