|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 2,331
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 2,331 |
Many, many years ago when I first got in to music, the most helpful thing I found was a circle of fifths wheel. It taught me the basic building blocks of music, in time I found it easier to be able to work out chord patterns, and that you could break the rules. These days there are apps and many web sites that do the circle of fifths. I would suggest that Swingbabymix look in to that, he will get an awful lot of benefit and insight very quickly. Can the circle of fifths help me learn to substitute chords?
WIN10 20H2, AMD R4800H ,16G , 2T ,FOCUSRITE 2i4 MKII，Studio One,FL STUDIO
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,640
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,640 |
I certainly agree about circle of fifths (or fourths depending on one's perspective). I think it's highly useful to be able to built it inside one's head, though I also carry a printed copy for quick reference. It's a powerful tool. SBM definitely uses Scaler 2 to help him design/discover progressions. Scaler 2 has a circle of fifths in its "chord" and "modulation" sections, though I think it doesn't discuss it, just offers a tool one might expect. Interesting the views about numbers of chords, substitutions and so forth. There is, to me at least, a nice presentation about "The Girl From Ipanema", how tritone substitutions were written into it, how people simplify it. https://youtu.be/OFWCbGzxofUStatus Quo once did a tour entitled "The Search For The Fourth Chord". Incidentally, tritone substitutions can make things simpler rather than harder.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 12/31/21 02:47 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689 |
Press button A to get chords. Press button B to get backing.
No personal input no creativity.
Is that really the way we want music making to go? Not when you put it like that! But I didn't say no personal input, no creativity. There's plenty still to create in BIAB even after you pick some chords (a melody, for one thing.) Wouldn't a simple progression be a good place to start a first project? Think of the kid who just figured out that all of Chuck Berry's songs are 3 chords, and writes down all those sets of 3. That's his "Scaler". He then strums A, D, and E on his guitar – his "Band in a Box" – settles on a simple pattern, adds a melody and some words, and calls it good. On the other hand, there is this horrifying future, already in progress: – Take an audio file (or URL) of a song you like and feed it to BIAB. – BIAB analyses the song and determines the style. – BIAB generates chord progressions that fit the style. – BIAB generates melodies for each progression. – BIAB generates style-appropriate lyrics and sings them. Voila, BIAB has created an album of 12 new songs for you, ready to copyright and monetize. All that's left for you is to fire up the random title generator (a legal requirement in order to be able to assert human authorship.)
Last edited by Mark Hayes; 12/31/21 02:29 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,492
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,492 |
Can the circle of fifths help me learn to substitute chords?
Not really. It is more for chord progressions. Chord substitution is a personal, depending on song genre, and tricky thing. Here are a couple of things that may help: http://i.stack.imgur.com/Hjuz5.jpghttps://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Chord+Substitution&form=IRMHRS&first=1&tsc=ImageBasicHoverIf you need help in chord substitution you would have to post the current chord progression as well as the genre. It makes a huge difference in substituting chords for a folk, country, or jazz song.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 280
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 280 |
[quote=swingbabymix]
Can the circle of fifths help me learn to substitute chords? Not really. It is more for chord progressions. He seems to be a total novice to the use of chords, so surely he needs to know the basics of chord progressions at the very least. I know the forum members are extremely helpful but there is no substitute for learning these things, rather than having someone spoon feed him the answer and him not understanding the theory behind it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,492
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,492 |
[quote=swingbabymix]
Can the circle of fifths help me learn to substitute chords? Not really. It is more for chord progressions. He seems to be a total novice to the use of chords, so surely he needs to know the basics of chord progressions at the very least. I know the forum members are extremely helpful but there is no substitute for learning these things, rather than having someone spoon feed him the answer and him not understanding the theory behind it. I agree.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689 |
He seems to be a total novice to the use of chords, so surely he needs to know the basics of chord progressions at the very least. Which is why getting into chord substitution is a terrible idea. Someone who has never written a simple 3 chord song wants to stuff 13b5's and God knows what else into his noodlings because "the more, the better". PS – I was just fooling around with "This Land Is Your Land", telling BIAB to "jazz it up". I had to stop because I was afraid if I kept going it might start to sound good.
Last edited by Mark Hayes; 12/31/21 08:38 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,010
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,010 |
SwingBabyMix, and other users that want to understand music better, Check out +++ Play With Your Music +++. It is a non profit educational organization that helps beginners learn about music and music theory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689 |
Check out +++ Play With Your Music +++. It is a non profit educational organization that helps beginners learn about music and music theory. The project looks really interesting, but email signup doesn't work and the last forum activity was August 2020. Do you know if it continues in some form? The "cohort" idea is great.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,010
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,010 |
Much of the material is self paced with links to YouTube videos (which are GREAT by the way) or to other educational sites. Forum activity comes and goes in spurts mostly depending on if the developers are trying new to develop new ideas.
Cohorts is a good idea but it is time consuming to find one unless the forum is active.
One of the reasons I suggested Play With Your Music to SwingBabyMix is one of the instructors is Chinese and based in Shanghai. I have a strong suspicion his heritage is Chinese so he maybe able to ask questions in his native language.
It is very difficult to understand what you're learning when information is discovered in a hodgepodge manner. This site has some structure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,145
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,145 |
well sugggested Jim. swbm would seem to need some education in basic music theory and practice. might cut the number of posts and help him progress in making music
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689 |
Forum activity comes and goes in spurts mostly depending on if the developers are trying new to develop new ideas... One of the reasons I suggested Play With Your Music to SwingBabyMix is one of the instructors is Chinese and based in Shanghai. I have a strong suspicion his heritage is Chinese so he maybe able to ask questions in his native language. Again – and please correct me if I'm wrong – I don't think he'll be able to do that. The signup function does not work, and the most recent post is from August 2020. There may be great material still online, but the site does appear to be inactive.
Last edited by Mark Hayes; 01/01/22 06:29 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,010
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,010 |
I don't know about signing up for a cohort but +++ Sign Up +++ for the Play With Your Music forum is active.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689 |
I don't know about signing up for a cohort but +++ Sign Up +++ for the Play With Your Music forum is active. I tried that. The site promised me a confirmation email which never came. And a year and a half without any forum activity isn't just a lull. I sent an email to playwithyourmusic@gmail.com asking if the project is still active. It did not bounce, so hopefully I will hear back from someone. This really does interest me. Sorry if I'm being annoying, but if I don't mention this, we know who will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 280
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 280 |
I see SBM is now has 947 posts and is considered an expert. Why does he need so much help? I think the rating software was never expecting this sort of activity in such a short period of time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,501
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,501 |
I see SBM is now has 947 posts and is considered an expert. Why does he need so much help? I think the rating software was never expecting this sort of activity in such a short period of time. Since there is a possibility you are not kidding, I'll just clarify that the forum titles, like yours of 'Apprentice', are assigned automatically by the forum software according to total post count. It has nothing whatever to do with competence, nor time on the forum.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 280
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 280 |
It was meant to be rather tongue in cheek. I am well aware how the the titles are assigned. By the knowledge of other forum members I am indeed an Apprentice. Though I think I know far more than SBM. there is a full manual available after all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,501
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,501 |
That's good; I was just checking.
This poster does present an intriguing challenge. One other poster inquired how best to help but was discouraged by another. So for now, I have decided I'm going to consider that the OP is like my 7-year-old grandchild. Smart, inquisitive beyond belief, and inexperienced in knowing how best to learn. Also, someone whose native language presents a translation problem, and for whom sarcasm does not work and bad or snide language must be avoided.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,640
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,640 |
I have a strong suspicion his heritage is Chinese Me too ... his mentions of being unable to access certain resources strongly suggests that.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Beginners Forum
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,145
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,145 |
i think there is a slight problem with the lack of feedback. several posts suggest how he could learn more about music. no real reply, just more questions. its as if he's exploring the features of the software not how to create music with it.
another post is on why BIAB suggests a song is in G when he thinks its in E minor that prompted me to ask if he understands majors and their relative minors.
the song may well be in G but if the first chord of the intro is E minor........well you see what i mean. there has been no answer.
and i'm not sure chinese state censorship would extend to sites dealing with music theory. maybe specific sites - including the one Jim mentions - but if the BIAB forum is accessible then censorship is not that draconian.
and as for tongue in cheek posts, my quote from Woody Guthrie - 'anything more than three chords is showing off' - seems to have forever branded me as a musical illiterate. but the point was serious in the light of some of the chord queries SBM has posted - particularly the chord substitution debate.
i take the point about being inexperienced in the way to learn but all we can do is point in the right direction - and that does seem to point towards a little basic music theory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
PowerTracks Pro 2026 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks 2026 is here—bringing powerful new enhancements designed to make your production workflow faster, smoother, and more intuitive than ever.
The enhanced Mixer now shows Track Type and Instrument icons for instant track recognition, while a new grid option simplifies editing views. Non-floating windows adopt a modern title bar style, replacing the legacy blue bar.
The Master Volume is now applied at the end of the audio chain for consistent levels and full-signal master effects.
Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
Get started today—first-time packages start at just $49.
Already using PowerTracks Pro Audio? Upgrade for as little as $29 and enjoy the latest improvements!
Order now!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,011
Posts798,924
Members40,010
| |
Most Online44,367
Mar 4th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean