|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741 |
As for microphones...eh, they all record...you can work out the foibles of any mic to your advantage Yes. Even the SM57/58 — both sound less than ideal into a modern solid state interface due to mismatched high impedance (these were designed to see the 600Ω Bell Telephone spec found in nearly everything in the '50s–'60s). A little tweak to a barrel connector or a mic cable fixes that and turns these into the excellent mics that they were designed to be. I recommend reading this article on the problem, then the sidebar on what you can do inexpensively to fix it. Recording Mag article on SM57 Wouldn't something with switchable impedance like a VTB1 preamp do the same thing? Seems to here. I don't trust my soldering .. <grin> Perhaps and perhaps not. Here is why Certain things need to be known. What is the impedance of the input device? If you want to calculate a load resistor that’s tailored to your preamp/board’s actual resistance, it’s easy to do. The formula is: 1/Rg = 1/Zd – 1/Za where Rg is the resistor to be used in the Gizmo, Zd is the desired total load impedance, and Za is the actual load impedance of the input. A Mackie board with XDR Pro preamps has an input impedance of 1300 ohms; plugging the numbers into the equation, we get: 1/Rg = 1/500 – 1/1300 = 0.002 – 0.000769 = 0.00123 Pushing the “1/x” button on the calculator, the answer is: Rg = 812.5 ohms The nearest value in the 1% tolerance series of resistors is 806 ohms, so that would be the one to use. I did not download a schematic for the VTB1 but Sweetwates shows specifications as Switchable Impedance between 50/200 Ohm which would not work for a 600-ohm mic. I will try to find a variable impedance device or schematic. A little electrical stuff. A microphone produces an alternating current (AC). So...things get a little more complex as opposed to direct current (DC) like coming out of your flashlight. Impedance is not really easy to understand. Take a simple circuit, battery connected to a resistor. The battery pushes current through the resistor, which "resists" this. Thus, the higher the resistance offered, the lower the current through the circuit. But there are also AC circuits that involve capacitors (C) and inductors (L). Each of these also contributes to the overall "resistance" offered by the circuit, except this combined "resistance" is called impedance for the simple reason that it involves not just the resistors, but also the capacitors and inductors in the circuit. It "impedes" the flow of current through the circuit. The term reactance is used to refer to the non-resistive component of the capacitors and inductors. Yes, as I said it is not exactly simple. If I knew the impedance of your input device and knew the impedance of your mic I could add a resistor into the circuit in five minutes. It is also possible to change the impedance of you input device but that can cause other issues. Billy EDIT: I found this video pretty well explains this subject in an easy-to-understand way. It also shows how to build a variable impedance device for an SM57. I will go build one and check it out.
Last edited by Planobilly; 02/17/22 03:55 PM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 3,620
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 3,620 |
Re old bell 600 ohms. there are several variable imp devices that address the problem...eg ? https://artproaudio.com/product/rp-1-mic-preamp/specs say imp variable tween 150 ohms – 10k ohms. useing this would mean also one doesnt need to crank the pre on the usb audio interface. see you tube for tests of this type of gizmo made by various manufacturers...down to 40 bucks ive seen them. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/17/22 03:51 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741 |
Here is a short article by Rob Jones about this subject. https://www.microphone-data.com/media/filestore/articles/Mic%20impedance-10.pdfRob Jones deals with technical aspects of marketing at Focusrite Audio Engineering Ltd. He is a graduate of the Tonmeister course, University of Surrey . Once upon a time he used to be an actor but then found music to be far more interesting. A SM57 will work in any interface. How it will sound is the question. Changing the impedance is the easiest way to change how it sounds. Running it through a tube pre will add distortion in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd harmonic generally considered by most people to add a "warm" sound to the mic. Low-cut filters can be added for cheap giving even more control. For those of you who are unsure about soldering, it can be learned in a very short time with many instructional videos on youtube. It is really not hard to learn to do. It is a very useful skill if you own a guitar or a microphone as something is going to fail sooner or later. Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 621
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 621 |
There's no such thing as "can't sing." Singing is a natural part of the human voice. If you can speak, you can sing. https://youtu.be/58hISyYdt5Ehttps://youtu.be/RY_dYVTZkfI
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Hey Bryon, Excellent stuff on your site. I particularly liked "Princess Of The Forrest". Very nice work. Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,538
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,538 |
I did not download a schematic for the VTB1 but Sweetwates shows specifications as Switchable Impedance between 50/200 Ohm which would not work for a 600-ohm mic. The specs on Sweetwater don't tell the full story, the actual impedance used is different than the specs you observed. From the manual ( http://studioprojects.com/pdf/vtb1_manual.pdf)page 3 "Mic Input (Rear switch in 200 ohm position): 2000 ohms Mic Input (Rear switch in 50 ohm position): 300 ohms" So with the switch at 50 ohm position, it yields 300 ohm .. not sure why there is a difference in this, which is why I asked. I am NOT an electrical engineer type guy (I don't even like soldering, except for stuff like copper pipe; my electronics soldering has always ended dismally) To me the VTB1 makes both my LCD and my SM57 sound better than the Focusrite or other devices. I was honestly asking if this may be why .. In other words, my original question wasn't meant to be rhetorical, but rather quizzical in nature so I can learn more, so I asked .. and yes the VTB1 does have an adjustable amount of tube added (12AX7 that can be replaced with a non-stock one), so it becomes more complicated at that point It allows hybrid tube/solid state mix My usual setting is about 40% tube, and I have no idea if this would increase/decrease the end result impedance, like I said it gets complicated, but I do like it and wonder if there is a empirical explanation Never looked for the schematics, but I'm sure they are out there .. they would mean absolutely nothing to me
Last edited by rharv; 02/20/22 07:24 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741 |
Electronic DIY hobbyists are changing out the opamps for "better" ones in the VTB1. I mention this because they are asking for schematics with no response which is very often the case for devices like this. This is all the technical information I could dig up. The microphone front end is a solid‑state Class AB circuit, which feeds a TRS jack insert point, allowing additional processing to be inserted into the signal path. According to the circuit description, a balanced, current‑source‑fed parallel transistor arrangement feeds into a bipolar op‑amp. The transistors provide up to 45dB of gain and the op‑amp a further 15dB. Both the mic input and line output are on balanced XLRs. The line switch is on the front panel next to the instrument/line input jack. A FET is used in the line input circuit, to present a high input impedance when the device is switched to instrument mode. (In this mode, the input impedance is 1.5MΩ.) Unusually for a preamp in this price range, the input also offers variable input impedance, via a rear‑panel switch, to suit both 50Ω and 200Ω microphones. The actual input impedance of the VTB1 is 2kΩ in the 200Ω position and 300Ω in the 50Ω position, as it is normal to feed mics into an impedance an order of magnitude greater than their own impedance. Whatever theory suggests, your best bet is to try both positions for each application and see which sounds best to you; usually, you'll hear a subtle difference at the low end. This unit is certainly not designed to accommodate all mics but of course, it will work. I think a SM57 is about 310 Ohm actual, rated at 150 Ohms. Most reviews I have read say this is a pretty good device for a low-cost device of this type. Without a schematic or the actual unit setting here to take apart and reverse engineer, it is impossible for me to say anything more than what I have read from a couple of electronic DIY sites. The simple answer to all these impedance issues is to buy or build a variable impedance device. Under $50 to buy and around $20 to build yourself. All the best, Billy EDIT: This describes the impedance issues with microphones in an understandable way. https://mynewmicrophone.com/what-is-a-good-microphone-output-impedance-rating/
Last edited by Planobilly; 02/20/22 10:07 PM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,641
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,641 |
This may or may not be helpful...
A dynamic microphone uses a diaphragm to capture the air-pressure (sound) waves and convert that into a physical movement that in turn moves a coil in a magnetic field to create an electrical. The system is the exact reverse of a conventional loudspeaker, which changes an electrical signal to air pressure waves.
Amongst the challenges with these processes is getting the mechanical and electrical parts to behave as cleanly as possible, with no resonances to cause peaks or notches in the sound.
The mic/speaker designers will do their best to minimise any such resonances, but there will always be some.
Resonances in this context are like a weights on springs. When you put energy into them they bounce around, and once they start, they can continue for some time unless there is something to take the energy out again.
A car has the same problem and car makers solve it with shock absorbers "damping" the bounce.
In a mic/speaker, the diaphragm, its support and the air around them will form part of that damping. There's also the coil within the microphone that acts as a kind of spring in an electrical sense. There are actually several different little resonances in every such assembly.
One of the few places left after that mechanical damping for a microphone to get rid of the energy in that resonance is to dissipate it into the load resistance, so the load resistance is a significant part of the damping.
The microphone designer will plan that the final resonances will be damped as best they can be with a particular load resistance, but as is obvious, load resistances vary, so all they really can do is to aim for a "best chance" load.
Years and years ago, telephone designers discovered that telephone wire pairs have natural impedance(*) of around 600 Ohms, and as early microphones often had quite long cables from mic to pre-amp, it made sense to use that natural impedance as best one could.
For ideal signal transmission, the three components, mic, cable and pre-amp, would all have the same impedance, but in practice that's not really necessary and it also happens that matching too well is usually not ideal for sound quality.
A kind of consensus formed for a microphone impedance of around 300 Ohms, the cable at around 600 Ohms and the pre-amp around 1500 to 2000 Ohms.
The final piece of the equation is how much of that damping the listener wants. Should the microphone sound bright (lower damping) or dull (higher damping)?
Condenser microphone have their own pre-amp, so little of the above applies to them.
(*)Impedance is approximately analogous to resistance, but accounts for the effects of capacitance and inductance in the circuit.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 51
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 51 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
PowerTracks Pro 2026 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks 2026 is here—bringing powerful new enhancements designed to make your production workflow faster, smoother, and more intuitive than ever.
The enhanced Mixer now shows Track Type and Instrument icons for instant track recognition, while a new grid option simplifies editing views. Non-floating windows adopt a modern title bar style, replacing the legacy blue bar.
The Master Volume is now applied at the end of the audio chain for consistent levels and full-signal master effects.
Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
Get started today—first-time packages start at just $49.
Already using PowerTracks Pro Audio? Upgrade for as little as $29 and enjoy the latest improvements!
Order now!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,026
Posts799,100
Members40,011
| |
Most Online44,367
Mar 4th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean