Dear PGMusic, There're a plethora of excellent forums on your site/board. Lots of good people, good musicians, good BIAB users populate and create a sense of community on them BUT, with the USER SHOWCASE forum in particular, flybynights, clickbaiters, carpet bombers and the like push regular, patient, earnest folk from the front page and there by to the land of no listens/no comments. A daily 15 minute check of the stats for the forum would show those who follow the directions set by PG, who PARTICIPATE and who generate a sense of community and those who, quite simply, just post their stuff and restrict themselves to responding to comments about them only. It would be worth spending the small amount of time and money to keep the forums running smoothly and as the showcases/troubleshooters/idea exchanges they are supposed to be.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Hmm.. I don't know how to reply to this. I guess, I am in for taking down stuff that has no relation to PG software or non original songs with exception of public domain / traditional.
But as far as everything else, I stopped listening to people who do not reply back or people who just posting for the sake of posting, or constantly write on topics that I am distant from. Other than that, I don't think "participation" should be enforced. I just don't believe narcissism should be punished And also... heavier moderation could discourage new users from posting.
I will make a suggestion. I would like to have ability to "follow" musicians that I listen to within Showcase section (to only follow within that section of the forum). Sometimes, I just don't have time to listen, and by the time I am "ready" some of new tunes are gone from the first pages.
What are the "directions set by PG"? I've read the Forum Rules and the User Showcase FAQ and didn't note any direction about restricting what material can be responded to.
Some contributors spend almost all of their time in the showcase. Some post songs. Some comment on others songs. Many do both. That's just how they participate.
Some contributors spend the majority of their time spread across one or more of the other forums. That's how they participate.
Some ask questions, some try to answer others questions. Most do both at one time or another.
Is any one way more correct than the other?
I rarely visit the User Showcase, and this is primarily based on the limited time I have available to contribute to these forums.
I could only foresee that some angst would be created if the Moderators got involved on a daily basis in cautioning certain members on how they should be participating in the User Showcase.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Hmm.. I don't know how to reply to this. I guess, I am in for taking down stuff that has no relation to PG software or non original songs with exception of public domain / traditional.
But as far as everything else, I stopped listening to people who do not reply back or people who just posting for the sake of posting, or constantly write on topics that I am distant from. Other than that, I don't think "participation" should be enforced. I just don't believe narcissism should be punished And also... heavier moderation could discourage new users from posting.
haha, you made me laugh with the narcissism comment, Misha Like you I stopped listening to peoples music who can't be bothered to listen to mine, or don't support other forum members, not enough hours in the day.
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
I will make a suggestion. I would like to have ability to "follow" musicians that I listen to within Showcase section (to only follow within that section of the forum). Sometimes, I just don't have time to listen, and by the time I am "ready" some of new tunes are gone from the first pages.
That is a brilliant suggestion! I am the same, I don't have the time to spend on the forum that I once did, sometimes it can be a few days. Being able to see a list of new uploads from people I follow would certainly solve the problem of missing songs that have slipped off the main page.
If I posted a few songs, got some feedback, but then started being attacked as a “carpetbomber“ and threatened by moderators, I would say the hell with that place and look for a more friendly forum.
Rayc//all. You make a number of interesting points. But i think we should be fair… some people possibly with medical conditions might not be able to devote all the time they might wish to the showcase. Thus they post some songs, but might not have the time to always post on other folks songs.
What ive tried to do (with my medical condition) is be very restrained with how many songs i post in a month in the showcase. Because i have so many songs done in bb/rb/reaps (bout 90 total) .and i dont want to crowd out other good folks by posting loads of songs. Ie “live and let live”.
In addition i try to contribute as a long time pg user to helping new pg users where time permits, Particularly in set up and other config probs. Thus i try to follow a certain forum etiquette.
Frankly what saddens me is ive heard in the showcase many fellow users songs that are pure gold, and deserve worldwide success and commercial radio station rotation. Thus i feel sad that such gold drops into the forum “abyss” never to be heard again often. It goes without saying that there are many brilliant musicians and songwriters on the pg forums.
Frankly i think the music biz model is broken, particularly when i listen to the current charts of world hits , which i find lacking in memorable licks or melodies versus the brilliant songs i often hear in the pg showcase.
I just dont know what the solutions are. Best. om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
I will make a suggestion. I would like to have ability to "follow" musicians that I listen to within Showcase section (to only follow within that section of the forum). Sometimes, I just don't have time to listen, and by the time I am "ready" some of new tunes are gone from the first pages.
Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
That is a brilliant suggestion! I am the same, I don't have the time to spend on the forum that I once did, sometimes it can be a few days. Being able to see a list of new uploads from people I follow would certainly solve the problem of missing songs that have slipped off the main page.
Yes, this sounds like a great idea.
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
If I posted a few songs, got some feedback, but then started being attacked as a “carpetbomber“ and threatened by moderators, I would say the hell with that place and look for a more friendly forum.
I agree. This is a friendly site right now so lets keep it that way. If you think someone is posting but not listening then just ignore that person. Problem solved.
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
If I posted a few songs, got some feedback, but then started being attacked as a “carpetbomber“ and threatened by moderators, I would say the hell with that place and look for a more friendly forum.
I agree. This is a friendly site right now so lets keep it that way. If you think someone is posting but not listening then just ignore that person. Problem solved.
I confess to not commenting on others' songs as much as I know I should.
But that can be a little daunting, especially for a newbie; you listen to a song, maybe you like it and want to say so, but the thread has 100 posts in it already about how incredible the song is, how the vocals are the best ever recorded although the compression on the strings is a little too high, etc... and there you are, thinking of saying, "I liked it!"
Sometimes I feel like Charlie Brown in this old Peanuts. Sometimes I will say I saw the ducky and the horsie, other times I will feel too stupid.
... and there you are, thinking of saying, "I liked it!"
Personally I see nothing whatsoever wrong with saying "I liked it". In many respects, after all, that's perhaps the most important comment of them all.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
I will make a suggestion. I would like to have ability to "follow" musicians that I listen to within Showcase section (to only follow within that section of the forum).
I don't think the UBB software can do this. As far as I can tell the current setup is standard, and you get "watch lists" of forums, users, topics. The ability to do Boolean operations ("Rustyspoon AND User Showcase") on these would be great, but I suspect the reason it isn't done that way is because it isn't supported by UBB and PG doesn't want to get into hacking it.
Here's a concept:
Set up a watch list with email notification for the User Showcase.
Then set up a filter on your email client to select "User Showcase" AND ("Moe" OR "Larry" OR "Curly") and trash everything else from the forum.
Talk about hacks! But it will do the trick. This is rule-based forum filtering "The BIAB Way". =8^)
... and there you are, thinking of saying, "I liked it!"
Personally I see nothing whatsoever wrong with saying "I liked it". In many respects, after all, that's perhaps the most important comment of them all.
I agree.
I'm in a fitness protection program. I'm been hiding from exercise.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I would not know how to approach this. What are the "directions set by PG"? I've read the Forum Rules and the User Showcase FAQ and didn't note any direction about restricting what material can be responded to.
I did follow that with AND..to go onto the other issues, having read both the Showcase & general "rules" I am aware that there is no requirement - as yet, if ever - to "participate". How? That's for PG to decide. The rest of your comment was very interesting but skirts the "issue" rendering it not germane.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I belong to forums where one is required to comment/review thrice before posting a song and there's no problem with that - not that I'm proposing that system at all.
Recently we've had, in the user showcase, one new arrival who posted five songs in three days without looking left or right, another posted about ten songs in a week. Both were nudged to participate more fully and have done. one of the two becoming a frequent responder with both generalities and suggestions for tweaks.
If someone "carpet bombs" I doubt they'd be sensitive/present enough to run away when it's suggested they contribute; they'd be more likely to continue carpet bombing at the several many sites they probably fly over. I think my comment regarding this has been misrepresented somewhat: Mods don't have to be heavy handed or "attack" either. There's nothing unfriendly with someone being asked, discretely of course, to slow down or comply with a requirement.
The suggestion that natural selection will eventually sort wheat n chaff makes sense but the reality, in the US at least, is that new folk get plenty of responses regardless of their myopic tendencies. I've often watched, in fly catching mode, as folk encourage and "enable".
TIME as a factor? If one has time to post one's own music then one is already online, has been through an "upload" process and has managed to do some sort of blurb. If one has time to log in and read responses to their own threads then one has time. I think, JAOM, you've misinterpreted/misconstrued my O.P. or I've completely botched it.
Being too daunted to post a comment is a possibility but the vast majority of comments in the US aren't about detail, improvements or processes but are virtual hugs n pats on the back. Reading the comments would, in many cases, make that clear. In fact I was advised, early one, to restrict myself to plaudits. Clearly I ignored that warning.
The User Showcase is very cyclical in nature, (a couple of months back it was like the Kenny Rogers Grammy Awards where a deity was invoked with every presentation),and the flybye/click collector/carpetbomber isn't an everyday event. My concern isn't about me missing out on responses or plays, (I have an objective view of my own abilities and songs as well as being interested in improving what I do), but for those for whom the User Showcase, in particular, is THEIR place to present THEIR creations.
Misha suggestion is a good one. Mark's "hack" is, as he suggests VERY PG but I certainly don't want more email arriving.
I know, how about we develop our own version of Vax Exemption! Folk can apply for a Certificate of Exemption From Participation. CLEARLY I'm joking.
Benefit of the doubt is an excellent rule and I try to apply it but when a new person does something like posts two or three songs simultaneously, I opt out until they've demonstrated which way they are leaning.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I know, how about we develop our own version of Vax Exemption! Folk can apply for a Certificate of Exemption From Participation.
Well, there was one user who refused to listen to another user's songs on religious grounds.
Ray, more than anything I would ask for a little restraint in the labelling language, sometimes referred to as "name-calling". Your most recent "carpet bomber" seems to have been genuinely unfamiliar with the posting etiquette you hold to be self-evident; for God's sake, his first few posts were in ALL CAPS.
The forum rules could use some language about reciprocity.
But moderators keeping daily score of who's naughty and nice? Please, no.
... The rest of your comment was very interesting but skirts the "issue" rendering it not germane.
Actually, I did think my last sentence was somewhat relevant:
Quote:
I could only foresee that some angst would be created if the Moderators got involved on a daily basis in cautioning certain members on how they should be participating in the User Showcase.
Nevertheless, I understand the issue, and this is not the first time exactly this topic has been raised.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
I know, how about we develop our own version of Vax Exemption! Folk can apply for a Certificate of Exemption From Participation.
Well, there was one user who refused to listen to another user's songs on religious grounds.
Ray, more than anything I would ask for a little restraint in the labelling language, sometimes referred to as "name-calling". Your most recent "carpet bomber" seems to have been genuinely unfamiliar with the posting etiquette you hold to be self-evident; for God's sake, his first few posts were in ALL CAPS.
The forum rules could use some language about reciprocity.
But moderators keeping daily score of who's naughty and nice? Please, no.
Hello Mark, I used a label rather than using a phrase or sentence each time to describe a situation. I used labels that are reasonably common and readily understood. I didn't call the people names and most definitely didn't use aggressive or "name calling" language when communicating with such people.
You'll notice that once the recent person was made aware of the "accepted/common" principle of participation they began to comment/participate. In other words I did what I would assume a moderator would privately do with a positive outcome.
Why do you, and others, assume that a moderator will, as a matter of course, become a heavy handed fascist? That certainly isn't my take on most moderators...such judgement and assumption reduces the label "moderator" to a negative, a term of abuse.
How would you describe someone who posts multiple songs/threads in a very short period of time without engaging with other forum members? Would that description be a label? Would that label be name calling?
You've implied I'm a "name caller" - you've labelled me. You've called me names.
"The forum rules could use some language about reciprocity." This is part of what I would expect...in fact a "moderator" wouldn't be able to "act" without such language, the basis upon which they might act IF necessary, being inserted.
I would be happy without a moderator if the self levelling floor, the self governing community and the occasional selfish individual provided no reason for "intervention".
As for naughty & nice: how else do the PG People determine recipients for their annual prizes? Forums are overseen and mods intervene when called upon...as was the case when I was cancelled in a post about a Hal & Burt song. They may be cloaked, a la Peverell, but they exist.
I think your position/perspective is valuable and genuine but I'm not convinced that laissez-faire rhetoric does more than embolden the already inclined.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
... The rest of your comment was very interesting but skirts the "issue" rendering it not germane.
Actually, I did think my last sentence was somewhat relevant:
Quote:
I could only foresee that some angst would be created if the Moderators got involved on a daily basis in cautioning certain members on how they should be participating in the User Showcase.
Nevertheless, I understand the issue, and this is not the first time exactly this topic has been raised.
Oh, I know it's not the first time...I did a little digging before posting. Your last sentence brought a question to mind immediately: Why do folk assume that moderation will quickly devolve into daily, public, punative intervention?
All good is assumed for the "let the market decide" version but a hint of regulation seems to trigger a Beverly Hillbillies "Revenuer" response in many folk. That show seems, amusingly, quite contemporary given the SovCit movement.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Why do you, and others, assume that a moderator will, as a matter of course, become a heavy handed fascist?
I don't! There are moderators now, moderating moderately. But you're asking them to police upload/comment ratios, and I find that immoderate.
Originally Posted By: rayc
How would you describe someone who posts multiple songs/threads in a very short period of time without engaging with other forum members?
Maybe in terms similar to those. I don't see a need to standardize on a nasty buzzword like "carpetbombing", which charmingly refers to acts of mass destruction, and which makes it sound like something horrible is happening. People do what you describe for a lot of reasons, very few of which are on the evil end of the spectrum.
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And also... heavier moderation could discourage new users from posting. 
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