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Lap steel, but NOT pedal #701996 01/31/22 04:23 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	I am looking to pick one of these up and wonder how many of you have one. My main question is that while you can tune it any way you like, I wonder what is the most commonly used, and the "why" that tuning was selected. I would probably lean toward open D, so I can slide up to an E on the 2nd fret. One guy I know who played here a lot but stopped coming to the mainland (he lives in Hawaii) liked open G, but for me that puts the E chord up at 9 and that sounds to "high octave-y) for my ears. And there's always standard guitar tuning, but that same high E chord dilemma would be there. So any lap guitar players, what tuning do you use?

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #701999 01/31/22 04:37 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,568 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,568 Hamlin NY	I use a raised nut on one of my electric guitars. It raises the string so you can play slide on it. You may want to consider one. Note that it goes over your regular guitar nut so no damage is done to the original. https://www.amazon.com/Golden-Gate-F-3303-Guitar-Conversion/dp/B0002Z3N8O I tune that guitar depending on the song's key. I mostly use open D, E, or G in both major or minor. Note that I have used these on both electric and acoustic guitars. I phoned my wife and asked her if she wanted me to pickup fish and chips on the way home. She just grunted. She still regrets me naming the twins. 64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #702000 01/31/22 04:37 AM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2015 Posts: 18 France W WineRider Enthusiast
WineRider Enthusiast W Joined: May 2015 Posts: 18 France	eddie1261, the question is what lap steel are you interested in...solid body, hollow body, 6 strings or 8 strings. I can only talk from the point of view I make my own lap steels. 6 string can be any tuning you wish...D. G. D6. G6 or C. C6. There are a miriad of tuning I use High G C6th on my 8 string LS. Tuning as follows high to low: G. E. C. A. G. E. C. A. If you really get stuck have a look at John Ely's site or check Cindy Cashdollar's info. Do a load of digging and you'll get the answers. WineRider

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #702015 01/31/22 05:11 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	Good info. Responding with what might look like random thoughts. First of all, I LOVE Cindy from her time with Asleep At The Wheel. I have one guitar set up now to play slide but I'd like one that I can sit behind and play from the top. Just because. Similar in concept to why I would love to have a set of vibes I don't yet know how to play. The end game here is to find one tuning that would be the best overall so I am not changing tuning all the time. I first thought I'd buy a one neck pedal steel and did some research about pricing. Once my heart started again I decided that may not be for me. Or for my credit card. WineRider you now have me thinking about maybe looking at an 8 string. Early in the process so I am at the point where I am poking a long stick into the water to see how deep it is.

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #702022 01/31/22 05:31 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,521 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,521 Middlesex, NC	I've considered getting one of those raised nuts Mario mentioned. I have a guitar that was essentially given to me that has seriously bad, bad, bad intonation. However, I could raise the strings and use it as a lap steel without much trouble. It does sound pretty good, but the thing is nearly impossible to play otherwise. Regarding the tuning.... I would think you would tune to something that works well for you. Just remember that each tuning would have a certain learning curve to play anything other than chords on it. Kinda like switching from guitar to mandolin. Fortunately, there's a big enough "feel difference" to not be a huge problem. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #702030 01/31/22 05:58 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	I wonder if Variax makes a lap guitar? Have to check. Change tuning digitally by selecting the tuning with a knob and go from open G to open D to open E with the twist of a knob. Some sort of modeling guitar sounds like a good idea.

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #702736 02/04/22 03:43 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 732 Florida etcjoe Journeyman
etcjoe Journeyman Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 732 Florida	Originally Posted By: eddie1261 I wonder if Variax makes a lap guitar? Have to check. Change tuning digitally by selecting the tuning with a knob and go from open G to open D to open E with the twist of a knob. Some sort of modeling guitar sounds like a good idea. The Variax does simulate resonator guitars, National variety but not lap steel per se. But yes the digital tuning change is spectacular and works great. You just have to be able to ignore the fact that the strings are making a different sound than what you are hearing if you know what I mean. If you play loudly that does not really present a problem, but if you are playing quietly, you can definitely hear the "raw" string noise which in some of the more esoteric tunings can throw you off! Last edited by etcjoe; 02/04/22 03:44 AM. My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #704005 02/10/22 04:57 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC Pat Marr Veteran
Pat Marr Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC	Eddie, I have a lap steel and you can have it if you want it. I thought I'd play it, but I don't. Remind me when you pass thru WInston-Salem on your trip https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ey71h8ep047758h/AAC12jNM0Hz9Q8zsh5iDeqNHa?dl=0

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal Pat Marr #704014 02/10/22 05:52 PM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	Originally Posted By: Pat Marr Eddie, I have a lap steel and you can have it if you want it. I thought I'd play it, but I don't. Remind me when you pass thru Winston-Salem on your trip Wow! Really?? It would absolutely find a happy home here at Casa del Eastside. Thank you so much!!

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #704028 02/10/22 08:57 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,065 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,065 Cooran Queensland Australia	My cheap little one has standard tuning so that I don't have to think too much. Getting around cello, mandolin and banjo from bass n guitar was enough brain strain for me. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #706164 02/23/22 05:49 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC Pat Marr Veteran
Pat Marr Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC	Originally Posted By: eddie1261 I wonder if Variax makes a lap guitar? Have to check. Change tuning digitally by selecting the tuning with a knob and go from open G to open D to open E with the twist of a knob. Some sort of modeling guitar sounds like a good idea. Variax does NOT make a lap steel, but it can change tunings programmatically as previously mentioned. On that topic, here's a way of raising the strings on a regular guitar (or Variax) so you can use a slide: buy a small diameter steel dowel (or even a nail will work)... and slide it between the strings and the fret board. The ideal diameter is the minimum it takes to keep the pressure of the slide from forcing the strings onto the frets. In order to protect my guitar I used my 3d printer to make a saddle which has a radius that matches my guitar's neck radius, and also a channel that matches the diameter of a nail I use. The thickness of the 3d printed saddle lifts the nail above the frets, so the diameter of the nail is very small, which makes it easy to insert it and remove it as needed. (A larger diameter will make it harder to install the pin between the strings and the neck, obviously) Once you've adapted your variax to use a slide, then the programmable tunings of the variax become useful in a whole new way. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ey71h8ep047758h/AAC12jNM0Hz9Q8zsh5iDeqNHa?dl=0

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #706165 02/23/22 05:58 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC Pat Marr Veteran
Pat Marr Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC	ramping this idea up a notch: With the combination of Helix/Variax, you can create a variety of tunings in the same patch (using "snapshots") If you aren't a master at navigating a particular tuning, you can compensate by changing tunings with the foot controller as you play through the song. This is similar to using the pedals on a pedal steel to change chordal possibilities. Each patch has 8 snapshots, so you could program 8 chord tunings into the same patch, and use the foot pedal to trigger them You can program ANY tuning... doesn't have to be any standardized tuning.. so chords that are typically hard to achieve on a non-pedal steel (such as a suspended 4th) could be easily accomplished using this method https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ey71h8ep047758h/AAC12jNM0Hz9Q8zsh5iDeqNHa?dl=0

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #706166 02/23/22 06:04 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	I have one guitar I don't care anything about and I used that method. I would take a little pocket screwdriver like techie types all have in their shirt pocket and slide it just in front of the nut. It worked, but there's nothing like the feel of sitting with your hand over the neck instead of under it and playing slide. I wonder how much it would cost me to have a guitar maker to take the guts from a Variax and put them into a pedal steel? Not that I'd do it but what a cool concept! I played a friend's Variax and played some slide while changing from standard tuning to open D to open G to open E for testing reasons and it worked just fine. The advantage there is that you can edit those presets so if you want a 6 or a 13 chord you just tell the Variax to do that and it does it. Love those things. The James Tyler versions have far more reliable electronics that the original ones, which seemed to not handle humidity well and the guys I knew that had them all said that random strings would just stop responding. Not one of them ever played a gig without a backup guitar or two on stage. But again, sitting over the guitar... Channeling by inner Alvino Ray! Slide guitar with a talk box! Fun fact nobody cares about. He was born in California but grew up in Cleveland!

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #706167 02/23/22 06:05 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC Pat Marr Veteran
Pat Marr Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC	Let's ramp it up another notch: The Helix includes models of most FX that are sold in pedal form. It has harmonizers, whammy, reverbs and swells... everything you need to simulate the volume pedal, slide, harmonies and reverbs that are commonly used with a pedal steel. So once you have adapted your Variax to play with a slide, and created a patch to handle special tunings, you can also use the Helix's built-in FX to get the signature sound of a real pedal steel playing through a clean amp. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ey71h8ep047758h/AAC12jNM0Hz9Q8zsh5iDeqNHa?dl=0

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #706168 02/23/22 06:10 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC Pat Marr Veteran
Pat Marr Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC	Originally Posted By: eddie1261 I have one guitar I don't care anything about and I used that method. I would take a little pocket screwdriver like techie types all have in their shirt pocket and slide it just in front of the nut. It worked, but there's nothing like the feel of sitting with your hand over the neck instead of under it and playing slide. I wonder how much it would cost me to have a guitar maker to take the guts from a Variax and put them into a pedal steel? Not that I'd do it but what a cool concept! I played a friend's Variax and played some slide while changing from standard tuning to open D to open G to open E for testing reasons and it worked just fine. The advantage there is that you can edit those presets so if you want a 6 or a 13 chord you just tell the Variax to do that and it does it. Love those things. The James Tyler versions have far more reliable electronics that the original ones, which seemed to not handle humidity well and the guys I knew that had them all said that random strings would just stop responding. Not one of them ever played a gig without a backup guitar or two on stage. But again, sitting over the guitar... Channeling by inner Alvino Ray! Slide guitar with a talk box! Fun fact nobody cares about. He was born in California but grew up in Cleveland! You and I think a lot alike Eddie. We both allow crazy possibilities instead of getting hung up on "common practice"./ There is something to be said for just learning how to play a new instrument. But its a completely different challenge to figure out new ways to get old sounds. I love thinking outside the box. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ey71h8ep047758h/AAC12jNM0Hz9Q8zsh5iDeqNHa?dl=0

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #706177 02/23/22 07:58 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	How are you enjoying your Variax? Have you been through the whole sound spectrum yet?

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #706222 02/23/22 01:25 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC Pat Marr Veteran
Pat Marr Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 8,075 Winston-Salem, NC	Originally Posted By: eddie1261 How are you enjoying your Variax? Have you been through the whole sound spectrum yet? Not sure what that means Eddie... but I'll probably bring the Helix and Variax to our get together, or you can play with it here when you visit. I'm pretty impressed... but I'm FAR from discovering all the possibilities it brings to any musical equation. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ey71h8ep047758h/AAC12jNM0Hz9Q8zsh5iDeqNHa?dl=0

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal #706231 02/23/22 02:06 PM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	Help me understand the Helix part of this. Is it necessary to have a Helix to play the Variax or is it an effects device that allows combinations of effects to be layered? I know that the Variax comes with a floor unit that the Variax connects to with that special cable. So what I mean by sound spectrum is "Les Paul with Helix setup #1. Then #2. Then #3..." And then moving on to "Strat with Helix setup #1, etc..." I know the modeling on the Variax is very good, especially with the acoustic options. The guy that played with a former band had acoustic, acoustic 12 string, acoustic open G, 12 string open G, and many others. He came over here and I used it for the baritone guitar on my song I Hope Somebody Cries. Just dialed it up and there it was in all it's "lowered by a 4th" beauty.

Re: Lap steel, but NOT pedal Pat Marr #706427 02/25/22 09:05 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,521 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,521 Middlesex, NC	Originally Posted By: Pat Marr Originally Posted By: eddie1261 How are you enjoying your Variax? Have you been through the whole sound spectrum yet? Not sure what that means Eddie... but I'll probably bring the Helix and Variax to our get together, or you can play with it here when you visit. I'm pretty impressed... but I'm FAR from discovering all the possibilities it brings to any musical equation. That will be cool because I've never seen either of those things You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

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