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#706131 02/22/22 09:06 PM
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Utility tracks don't show up in the Bar Settings window, so how can do bar settings for Utility tracks at particular bars? I'm looking to mix the horns down for the first verse and bring them back in for the chorus and 2nd verse.


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Originally Posted By: Funkifized
Utility tracks don't show up in the Bar Settings window, so how can do bar settings for Utility tracks at particular bars? I'm looking to mix the horns down for the first verse and bring them back in for the chorus and 2nd verse.

You do this with the Audio Edit Window.

See this post from yesterday


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You have to activate the Volume Automation feature, within the Audio Edit Window.

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Note of interest. There's four methods to adjust audio from the Audio Edit Window. Silence, Amplify, normalize, and volume automation.

All of the Bar Settings selections; Mute, Return to Normal, Change by, Fade per Bar and Louder (per bar) can each be done from the Audio Edit Window.

The Audio Edit Window functions work the same on all 24 tracks, Utility Tracks and the original Legacy Tracks.


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Yes, but... That would turn a ReaLTrack into an AudioTrack (.wav), and take up more space and create an additional file.

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Originally Posted By: Thunderthud
Yes, but... That would turn a ReaLTrack into an AudioTrack (.wav), and take up more space and create an additional file.

RealTracks (and RealDrums) are already Audio files. They are 'assembled' to make a new output file. That's what plays when you press generate/play. It's always been that way with RealTracks. There is no 'additional' file at all.


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Originally Posted By: Thunderthud
Yes, but... That would turn a ReaLTrack into an AudioTrack (.wav), and take up more space and create an additional file.


In the 2022 version if you generate a RealTrack onto a Utility track, like you would on a legacy track, it will remain a RealTrack. Also Volume Automation does not turn a RealTrack into an orange audio track.

Last edited by Chantelle - PG Music; 02/23/22 09:48 AM.

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Originally Posted By: AudioTrack
Originally Posted By: Thunderthud
Yes, but... That would turn a ReaLTrack into an AudioTrack (.wav), and take up more space and create an additional file.

RealTracks (and RealDrums) are already Audio files.

Yes and no. Real tracks are not stored as a separate wav file in the song's folder. They are stored in the designated RealTracks folder. Only the .sgu/.mgu file needs to be stored and references the RealTrack to be used. Not seperate audio file, as would be created if you use the audio edit feature. (Not volume automation).

Chantelle's comment is correct. I am referencing 2022 version. But if you use audio edit features.. it will convert to an audio file

Last edited by Thunderthud; 02/23/22 10:01 AM.
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Hi Thunderthud, thanks for the clarification. Yes, when you click the Edit menu in the Audio Edit window, those functions will convert the RealTrack to an orange audio track, whereas the Volume Automation feature does not.

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Originally Posted By: Thunderthud
Yes, but... That would turn a ReaLTrack into an AudioTrack (.wav), and take up more space and create an additional file.

Exactly, you don't need all these wav files, most of the destructive Audio Edits can be made non destructive same as the Vol automation thus not writing the RealTrack data to wav files. You want to be able to copy any RealTrack/Drum data to any other track without creating new wav files, "Look Ma No WAVs".
This is the same way modern DAWs work.

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There have been a number of similar questions based on inaccurate expectations regarding UTs, probably prompted by PGM inferring that they were the same as Legacy Tracks.
I think a tutorial video from PGM explaining what we can and cannot do with UTs would be appropriate.

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This particular subject, "RealTracks Being Converted to Audio Tracks" by AudioEdit, is NOT unique to Utility Tracks. The same issue exists on Legacy Tracks. So, in this case... I guess "all tracks are equal".

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Originally Posted By: Thunderthud
This particular subject, "RealTracks Being Converted to Audio Tracks" by AudioEdit, is NOT unique to Utility Tracks. The same issue exists on Legacy Tracks. So, in this case... I guess "all tracks are equal".


This is true. The unique concept of "RealTracks Being Converted to Audio Tracks" in the Audio Edit Window has been possible on Legacy Tracks since 2012 when Audio Performance Tracks were introduced in BIAB for Windows. Audio Recording introduced in 2015 in BIAB elevated the program to the level of being a digital multi track recorder. This was a huge development that was overlooked by most BIAB users that participate in the Forums thus generating few if any questions or discussion.

Being a multi track recorder put BIAB on par with top of the line hardware, stand alone multi track recorders at that time like the Tascam DP 24 and Zoom R24. All of the principles of multi track recording apply to BIAB and most every process and technique applicable to hardware units can be used in BIAB. The Audio Channel and Artist Performance track is the bridge and link between RealTracks, the BIAB Mixer and audio. Most folks only knew Artist Performance Track from the Artist Performance sets included with the purchase of the program.

As a multi track recorder that when combined with other BIAB features like the RealTrack Medley Maker and MultiStyles, the myth that BIAB was limited to only seven tracks is completely dispelled. The RealTrack Medley Maker provides a 10 channel RealTrack sub-mixer to each of the seven Legacy Tracks making it possible to generate a stereo mix of up to 70 different instruments in a single render. Combine the RealTrack Medley Maker with the Audio Channel and Artist Performance Track feature, these multi track recording processes create layers of tracks numbering in the dozens with no degradation in the sound quality.

Originally Posted By: Thunderthud
Yes, but... That would turn a RealTrack into an AudioTrack (.wav), and take up more space and create an additional file.


Regardless of what program a track is edited in, there will be an audio file created to use it in BIAB. In BIAB, any audio file can be saved as an MP4 to reduce the file size without affecting the BIAB song audio quality.


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I can copy the RealTrack data directly into Reaper and copy it in there also without any wav files ever being created. This is how modern DAWs work.

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What RealTrack data?


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Code:
Riff #	Summary	RiffHasData	SourceWAVFileName	SourceWAVFileTempo	SourceBarNumber	SourceBeatNumber	SourceTimeSig	SourceStartTimePPQ1200	*SourceBar	*SourceTick(120)	SourceTickOffsetPPQ1200	SourceEndTimePPQ1200	*Tick Duration120(calc)	*Beats Duration (calc)	SourceEndRiffStretchAmountPPQ1200	SourceEndRiffTransitionAmountPPQ1200	DestinationStartTimePPQ1200	*Chord	*Bar Destination 	*Beat Destination 	*Tick Destination120 	TranspositionSemitonesRequired	ThisRiffIsaPush1200	ThisRiffNumber	RiffNoneHoldShot	RiffHoldsLibraryNumber	ThisIsaPush	ThisisDrums	RiffdbOffset	RiffSoloistNumber	RiffThisRiffStartShouldBeMergedWithEndOfPreviousOne	RiffIsUnknownMonoStereo	RiffIndexFromMultipleRT	RiffMultipleRealTracksNumber	AnyLoopActive	AnyLoopRestartLoopWhenWavEnds	AnyLoopBaseTempo	AnyLoopNumberOfBeats	AnyLoopTransposeAmount	AnyLoopStretchTempo	AnyLoopTranspose	AnyLoopOriginalKeyMod	ChordLoopActive	ForceUsePlusMinusRealtracks	RiffPanning	RiffInstructionFutureBytes
0	RiffHasData=false
1	Riff 3:3:1 to 5:4:118, dur=1198, beats=9, ticks=+118,leadin120=241	1	D:\bb\RealTracks\Guitar, Electric, Soloist CountryBrent Ev 120\eg5745.WAV	120	3	1	4	21615	3	241	0	33600	1198	9.99	0	0	21615		3	3	2	0	0	67295	0	0	0	0	0	1515	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,	
2	Riff 5:4:66 to 6:4:119, dur=534, beats=4, ticks=+54,leadin120=-54	1	D:\bb\RealTracks\Guitar, Electric, Soloist CountryBrent Ev 120\EG5746-2.WAV	120	14	1	4	71466	13	426	0	76810	534	4.45	0	0	33066	Gbm	5	4	67	0	0	70367	0	0	0	0	0	1515	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,	
3	Riff 85:2:114 to 87:4:54, dur=1141, beats=9, ticks=+61,leadin120=234	1	D:\bb\RealTracks\Guitar, Electric, Soloist CountryBrent Ev 120\EG5738+2.WAV	120	23	1	4	117549	23	234	0	128960	1141	9.51	0	0	415149		85	2	115	0	0	33923	0	0	0	0	0	1515	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,	
4	Riff 87:4:111 to 88:4:119, dur=489, beats=4, ticks=+9,leadin120=-9	1	D:\bb\RealTracks\Guitar, Electric, Soloist CountryBrent Ev 120\EG5738+2.WAV	120	132	1	4	638314	131	471	0	643210	490	4.08	0	0	427114	A	87	4	111	0	0	34605	0	0	0	0	0	1515	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,	

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It appears you've generated and frozen RT1515 on Track 1 in BIAB and then extracted text data of that generated track in order to open that exact generated RT1515 audio data in Reaper without creating an audio file (Wav/Mp3/Mp4). The Gif demonstration clearly shows Track 1 in BIAB has not been edited and is colored green and not orange that indicates the track has been converted to an Artist Performance Track after editing has been done on the track.

The issue in this post is that editing with the BIAB Audio Editor with commands other than volume automation creates an audio file when the project is saved and closed.

What you've shown is Reaper reading text instructions from BIAB without having to export the file as audio. However, you obviously must then complete the edit in Reaper so how do you get the edited audio from Reaper back into the BIAB project without creating an audio file that will load and be saved as an Artist Performance Track? Are you able to generate a text file in Reaper that BIAB can read to import the edited audio without it creating an Artist Performance Track audio file?

Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 02/24/22 04:24 PM.

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"so how do you get the edited audio from Reaper back into the BIAB project without creating an audio file"
The whole idea is to get out of Biab into a modern DAW where you have a 1000 times more control and freedom to do what you like without creating a hard drive full of wav files, you don't want to get back in Biab.
I can regenerate any section of any track directly in Reaper.
I can generate a whole new track.
I can generate RealCharts.
I can generate midi tracks.
I can generate all the style tracks.
I can instantly change an FX RealTrack into a Direct Input with all the same sections playing.
I can instantly change back from DI to FX RT.
I can instantly change a stereo RealDrums track into 10+ stems tracks.
I can generate up the missing Holds for UsersTracks.
I can generate up Midi UsersTracks.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing ?


The best thing about Biab is it's content and all the wonderful content is in a simple txt file.
Don't forget I spent years in the RealBand jail of crashing, frustration and massive project files.
If I had know I could do this back in 2009 with Reaper I would not have spent all these years here.
This way is heaven !



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< Is that a good thing or a bad thing? >



You've answered your own question. It's obviously a bad thing. The 'do it in Reaper' solution fails to accomplish the tasks requested.

With respect to the posted question, you've presented a complicated, sluggish process specific to Reaper that uses approximately 66mb of disk space to avoid creating a 3-4mb file. The process is dependent on using BIAB generated data and audio and with the power of Reaper's features, tools and the power of scripting, nothing on the list of BIAB tasks you posted apply to the post question. It does demonstrate Reaper can't edit a RealTrack as simple, quick and easy as BIAB can do them natively.

In the 2022 release, the whole idea is to not leave BIAB for a DAW because there's no longer (never was) 1,000 times more control and freedom to create tracks that are complex arrangements, not just random renders of a chord progression. Hard drive space is of no concern because BIAB projects and associated files can be stored on external storage.

The better solution is to record non-BIAB audio/midi tracks in a DAW and import those tracks into the BIAB project and take advantage of all the exclusive and unique capabilities the BIAB program.

You're correct saying the best thing about BIAB is it's wonderful content. But also it's features, tools and processes that are all contained in the singular BIAB program. Your years of struggle with RealBand is because RB has never been a full-featured BIAB product. The VST-Plugin isn't either. Reaper, Sonar, Logic, Pro-Tools, Studio One, Cakewalk, Ableton, Garageband, Audacity and all other DAWs have none of the BIAB capabilities embedded.


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You are missing the point completely, All Modern DAW's have no problem at all with non destructive audio editing and play direct from source.
If Biab had this you would not have this problem, you could simply copy any section of a RealTrack to another track without it becoming a wav file, you can apply any effect without it becoming a wav on the hard drive.
If it played direct from the source as DAWs do, it would be quicker and you would have a Live Arranger that played real audio not midi direct from keyboard chord input.
And that is a BAD thing ?
The best thing you could possibly do is contact all these DAW companies and get them to go back to destructive off line editing of the 90's.
Last year utility tracks generated up Audio RealTracks this year they are in RAM, does that get a bit scary for you ? How can you stop PG going any further and allowing copying of RealTracks to another track without it turning into a wav file and having more non destructive editing like Vol automation, where did that come from ??? I was the one that had to really fight to get Vol automation in RealBand !!!! I was the one that showed way back how to have more tracks in Biab !!! I have showed PG how to have instant generate of tracks in RealBand !!!
Way way back I suggested Biab be 64bit and have more tracks, I copped so much flack for suggesting such a thing !!!
And now I see the same users saying how wonderful more tracks and 64bit are.
So many things that have been added to Biab I suggested that you yourself now use, and here I am now getting hassled for saying such things.
I think you should be showing a bit more appreciation for what I do rather than purposefully giving me a hard time. I use Reaper as an example, if it can do it Biab can also.
Maybe you are one of the reasons here why Biab was still stuck in the 90's for so long. Why don't you suggest new ideas yourself rather than fighting to keep it in the past, if you want that go back to an older version.
It's like you are holding onto the past and don't want to let it go.
Give me a *^%$&( break and grow up.

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Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!

Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.

Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.

Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!

And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.

The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!

2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!

With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!

These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!

This Free Bonus PAK includes:

  • The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK: -For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles. -For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles. -For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
  • MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
  • Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
  • Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
  • Playable RealTracks Set 5
  • RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
  • SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
  • iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
  • 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
  • FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
  • MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
  • Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
  • Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
  • RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
  • SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)

Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!

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