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I'm struggling a bit to see how best to handle this, so I'll describe the problem and see what ideas/methods/tricks might be feasible.
I want to use an instruments with a narrow note range like octaves, the notes of which may also be shifted by one or more octaves, sometimes diatonic or pentatonic.
I rather suspect there's no easy solution, though user-styles and/or harmonies may help.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
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What I do in cases like this is to go to the piano roll view and transpose those out of range notes into a instruments range. If the entire track is out of range then I transpose said track by an octave; I have to do this every time when I use an Ample bass as my sound source.
You should be able to highlight an out of range note, say a C4, and bring them down or up to an in the range note, say a C5 or a C3. Or you could change them to another in range note. It isn't that hard and once you get use to it it does go very quickly.
Note that I do this in my DAW.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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What I do in cases like this is to go to the piano roll view and transpose those out of range notes into a instruments range. If the entire track is out of range then I transpose said track by an octave; I have to do this every time when I use an Ample bass as my sound source.
You should be able to highlight an out of range note, say a C4, and bring them down or up to an in the range note, say a C5 or a C3. Or you could change them to another in range note. It isn't that hard and once you get use to it it does go very quickly.
Note that I do this in my DAW. Hi Mario, I've been doing the same for Roots Upright Bass, probably for the same reasons. Mostly I can just shift it up an octave instead of down, though there are a couple or so notes at the top end that RUB doesn't have. I've been doing it in BiaB, but am coming to the conclusion that getting a decent outline/basis in BiaB and then transferring to DAW may well be better.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Gordon, are you using a VSTi in BIAB? And if so, are you saying BIAB has notes that are outside of the playable range of your chosen instrument?
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Hi there! On top of Matt's query above, it'd be helpful to know what version of Band-in-a-Box you're using as well!
Cheers,
Ember
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Hi there! On top of Matt's query above, it'd be helpful to know what version of Band-in-a-Box you're using as well! I'm pretty sure that Gordon is using the BIAB2022 UltraPAK (it's in his signature  )
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Gordon, are you using a VSTi in BIAB? And if so, are you saying BIAB has notes that are outside of the playable range of your chosen instrument?
Hi Matt, Yes. Thete's no criticiasm of BiaB here. These are constraints of the instruments and therefore mostly my problem. I now have several VSTis that have unusually limited ranges, perhaps 1.5 or two octaves, and some are diatonic. I'd like to be able to constrain BiaB to play only notes that the instrument has. Looking through styles, I think that most diatonic instruments are on RealTracks, which alone may andswer my question, though a few are on MIDI. All instruments have some limits on note range, many to three octaves from a particular note and BiaB handles that perfectly sensibly, so there must be a mechanism to constraining the range. I suspect thats done using Style and or Harmony data, though that's an area I have yet to properly explore. Hi Ember, Yes, BiaB 2022 918. The question is definitely valid, though, as I do sometimes run different versions on different PCs.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Thanks Gordon for explaining the problem further.
I wasn't exactly sure of the detail of the issue, but now I completely understand.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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I don’t use VSTi instruments in BIAB, only in a DAW, but I thought I recognized what was being said here because I’ve experienced it in a DAW. I had one piccolo trumpet that would not quite go as high as it is possible to play, for example the top note of Penny Lane.
Of course in a DAW you can edit the offending notes and change their register or delete them as needed, but in my example this wouldn’t give a good result without that top note.
Other than editing the MIDI tracks in BIAB and freezing the tracks, I don’t know how to limit the playable range. There is a setting for the lowest note of the bass track, but that’s it, and no limiter on the upper range.
I wonder if this problem is widespread? How many people have a VSTi with serious range limits? Is it enough to warrant a Wishlist request to add range limits for each track in BIAB?
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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.................
I wonder if this problem is widespread? How many people have a VSTi with serious range limits? Is it enough to warrant a Wishlist request to add range limits for each track in BIAB? Yes this problem is widespread. AFAIK all good MIDI sound sources are either limited or very close to the actual range of the instrument it is emulating. I have VSTis that range from one octave to a few octaves. The problem comes in when one composes in GM. All GM sounds that I have seen use the entire keyboard, thus you could be writing out of the instruments actual range. That is why I only compose in my DAW using a VSTi that has the chosen instrument's actual range. Incorporating said limits in BiaB would be nice but IMHO there are other things that should be done in BiaB first. Plus it would be a tremendous task having limits on over 100 instruments. The solution, or current workaround, is write MIDI tracks in your DAW. YMMV
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I wonder if this problem is widespread? How many people have a VSTi with serious range limits? Is it enough to warrant a Wishlist request to add range limits for each track in BIAB? I think it may be. Part of my reason for asking, of course. I'm primarily a jazz enthusiast and beginner, but an awful lot of my influences have come from Africa and Latin America, some from Asia, some through a European lens ... I like the Iberia/Moorish mixes, for example. So some of my choices for instruments come from those cultures, some of my scales are influenced by those cultures. I do note that at least some of those play an adjacent diatonic note when a the instrument does not have the chromatic note. I also see that some have a chromatic scale on the VSTi even though the instrument proper does not. Some of the VSTis also have articulations or musical phrases that play in response to out-of-range keys. It would seem to me that a means to constrain the range of notes for an instrument and/or channel may be very useful. I'm a little less sure that constraining to a scale is necessarily so helpful ... I was prompted to ask the question whilst experimenting with a Bolon VSTi, which is an African accompaniment instrument with only three or four notes ... and that would surely appear a constraint too far. :-)
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Incorporating said limits in BiaB would be nice but IMHO there are other things that should be done in BiaB first. Plus it would be a tremendous task having limits on over 100 instruments. The solution, or current workaround, is write MIDI tracks in your DAW. YMMV I largely concur other than I would visualise range constrained by track rather than by instrument ... I think trying to do it per-instrument could be a never-ending task. Edit ... with VSTis, there's always the option of generating the MIDI by playing or importing, so there are already ways to do this. But I figured others may already have methods that I could borrow.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 03/05/22 05:01 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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So, for this to work in BIAB, it couldn’t be automated. You would have to know already what the range of the instrument is, then set the limit on that one track so BIAB doesn’t exceed it?
It should be possible in MIDI. They already do it for bass.
Related, back to my case involving the piccolo trumpet. I discovered the vendor limited the upper range in an index, and I just went in and hacked the index. It turns out they provided the sound of that high note in their library, but they didn’t expect anyone to use it!
I can just barely hit that highest note in Penny Lane, and I only play piccolo trumpet at Christmas. If someone practices that little beast of an instrument regularly, they could own that note, and a composer like me should be able to write it.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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So, for this to work in BIAB, it couldn’t be automated. You would have to know already what the range of the instrument is, then set the limit on that one track so BIAB doesn’t exceed it?
It should be possible in MIDI. They already do it for bass. That's as I see it if it were done, though template instruments would also be a possibility. I supect PGM probably already have something of this sort internally to BiaB, as otherwise we'd likely sometimes have extraordinarily hear notes from trombones or extraordinarily low note from clarinets. Whether it is, could be, or should be user accessible is another matter.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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So, for this to work in BIAB, it couldn’t be automated. You would have to know already what the range of the instrument is, then set the limit on that one track so BIAB doesn’t exceed it?
It should be possible in MIDI. They already do it for bass.
Related, back to my case involving the piccolo trumpet. I discovered the vendor limited the upper range in an index, and I just went in and hacked the index. It turns out they provided the sound of that high note in their library, but they didn’t expect anyone to use it!
I can just barely hit that highest note in Penny Lane, and I only play piccolo trumpet at Christmas. If someone practices that little beast of an instrument regularly, they could own that note, and a composer like me should be able to write it.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Hi Mario. I agree, there is no upper limit on the bass in BIAB and you can create some awkward sounds. I was referring only to the setting for lowest bass note. I’m assuming that since they have that, other limits could be added including upper limits.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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... can raise a bass as high as you want, thus taking it way out of a normal bass's range.
If PGM were to enable a constraint, I would anticipate it would affect only auto-generation, not notes one might manually enter or adjust. To constrain auto-generated notes sounds(!) fairly easy; to meaningfully stop people manually adjusting notes sounds much more complex and, to be honest, probably counter-productive.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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Hi Mario. I agree, there is no upper limit on the bass in BIAB and you can create some awkward sounds. I was referring only to the setting for lowest bass note. I’m assuming that since they have that, other limits could be added including upper limits. Good point Matt but having limits could be a problem for bass, guitar, and other instruments. PGM guitar and bass notes are based on the actual notation. However many guitar and bass VSTis require the notes to be in guitar and bass notation; that is one octave higher than the actual sound. That is why I have to raise BiaB's bass lines up one octave when using Ample sound and other bass VSTis. If PGM raised their notes an octave higher then it wouldn't sound correct in their GM sound source. Its a catch 22 IMHO.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
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... can raise a bass as high as you want, thus taking it way out of a normal bass's range.
If PGM were to enable a constraint, I would anticipate it would affect only auto-generation, not notes one might manually enter or adjust. To constrain auto-generated notes sounds(!) fairly easy; to meaningfully stop people manually adjusting notes sounds much more complex and, to be honest, probably counter-productive. Good points but PGM has to be consistent with GM sound sources. The problem happens when you drop BiaB MIDI files into a DAW and select a non-GM sound source. Like I just mentioned in my message to Matt PGM write bass notes by actual notation but many bass sound sources expect those MIDI notes to be in bass notation, that is one octave higher. BiaB sounds OK when using a GM sound source but the problem occurs when using a non-GM sound source in your DAW. I don't know how PGM can correct for that as there are many different sound sources available.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
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Thanks for the reminder. Yes, I had to adjust the bass for SWAM bass which played it an octave too low, so I know what you mean.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
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Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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