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MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? #709528 03/19/22 03:15 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	I'm using Microchords for the first time and love the way they work in Pop Rock music at least but am finding a problem when they follow a Held chord The exact same microchord bar is used in a phrase prior to it and works perfectly but later, that bar containing those microchords (copy and paste) is used again after a bar containing a held chord (X...). Not only do they not work, the Held chord just seems to carry on through and the microchords in the bar are ignored. It also seems to affect the following bar to a strange extent as some instruments either falter or dont play at all on the 'pick up'. The bar after that everything seems back to normal. Peculiar behaviour. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but can't see why it should work fine in one scenario and not in another. Any ideas? All input appreciated. Bests Ian Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709568 03/19/22 07:11 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,483 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,483 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Ian, I haven’t worked a great deal with this, but I found the new 15-minute video they released yesterday really helped me. Have you seen it? Top sticky post in this BIAB for Windows Forum. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709571 03/19/22 07:42 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Hi Matt Yes, I saw it and watched it. Very in depth presentation. Most of what it gives BB will probably never used by me but just that ability for aggressive pushes is a boon to rock pop guitarists. The issue seems to lie OUTSIDE of MC. Its fine and works according to plan UNTIL I put a Held Chord bar in front of the MC bar. Bests Ian Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709576 03/19/22 08:26 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,375 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,375 Hamlin NY	I used to have those kinds of problems but a build eliminated them, I don't remember which one. I just tried to reproduce your problem but I couldn't. If I did C(hold) then in the next measure just M it failed every time, as it should. If I put C(hold) then in the next measure C then M I worked every time, even when copied. Maybe it is based on the style that you are using? What style are you using? Also note I work in MIDI and have not tried this with RTs. If you could upload your song then we could look at it. I haven't lost all of my marbles but there is a small hole in the bag someplace! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709580 03/19/22 08:42 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,483 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,483 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Mario has a good point. A few issues have been reported so don't give up just yet. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709587 03/19/22 09:04 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 21,042 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 21,042 Melbourne, Australia	Hi Ian I'm pretty sure that something has been reported to the developers relating to Styles that use held chords do NOT react correctly to Micro Chords. So hopefully that is being investigated. Trev BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? MarioD #709603 03/19/22 10:58 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Originally Posted By: MarioD I used to have those kinds of problems but a build eliminated them, I don't remember which one. I just tried to reproduce your problem but I couldn't. If I did C(hold) then in the next measure just M it failed every time, as it should. If I put C(hold) then in the next measure C then M I worked every time, even when copied. Maybe it is based on the style that you are using? What style are you using? Also note I work in MIDI and have not tried this with RTs. If you could upload your song then we could look at it. Mario Awwy from base just a few days - the Spring has finally sprung. But I CAN tell you it is a BLANK 44 style. All RTs. IIRC I have one phrase that has a bar of Eb, then an MS bar before going on. Works fine. 8 bars later (I think) that Eb is Eb... and the MC bar goes belly up. Bests Ian Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? AudioTrack #709604 03/19/22 11:00 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Originally Posted By: AudioTrack Hi Ian I'm pretty sure that something has been reported to the developers relating to Styles that use held chords do NOT react correctly to Micro Chords. So hopefully that is being investigated. Trev GYBR going well. I'll wait and see how the MC queries turn out. I changed the arrangement slightly to get round this particular issue. Bests Ian Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709647 03/19/22 03:04 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,993 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,993 Winston Salem, NC USA	Ian, are you using a held chord and microchords on the same bar or are you placing the held chord on one bar and the microchords on the following bar? Examples: Bar 15 has held chord and microchords. Bar 15 has held chord and bar 16 has microchords with the expectation the held chord carries over from bar 15 to bar 16? Jim Fogle - 2026 BiaB (Build 1224) RB (Build 7) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? Jim Fogle #709664 03/19/22 09:26 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle Ian, are you using a held chord and microchords on the same bar or are you placing the held chord on one bar and the microchords on the following bar? Examples: Bar 15 has held chord and microchords. Bar 15 has held chord and bar 16 has microchords with the expectation the held chord carries over from bar 15 to bar 16? Hi Jim Bar 15 is a single 4 beat held chord (Eb...) Bar 16 is Microchords only. Bar 17 is a normal 4 beat bar with 2 chords in it. I know the MC bar works as it is used earlier and works as intended but the bar prior to that use is a normal 4 beat bar. Bests Ian Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709726 03/20/22 07:53 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Back home. Here is a screenshot of that bit of the SGU. In the first instance it works, in the second it doesnt as previously described. Bests Ian Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) MICROCHORD.JPG (69.63 KB, 163 downloads) Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709727 03/20/22 08:08 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,993 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,993 Winston Salem, NC USA	Ian, I believe Microchords and Motifs are considered to be underlying chords and complementary to whatever main chord is on the beat. I don't think the Microchords and Motif functions look before or after the bar but instead complement whatever is in inside the bar. Try adding at least one chord (Db...) in bars 21 and 44 and I'll bet the Microchords will work. Last edited by Jim Fogle; 03/22/22 11:13 AM. Reason: changed beat to bet Jim Fogle - 2026 BiaB (Build 1224) RB (Build 7) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709744 03/20/22 11:01 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Hi Jim Musically baffled. No idea what a 'motif' is and the video sadly assumes I do. Surely if I invoke a microchord bar it should play exactly whats in it, independent of anything before or after? My underetanding is its simply a way of getting more chords in a bar. The first example (bar 21) plays correctly as shown. Bar 44 already has the same chords in it so dont understand what you mean. Naybe me being Sunday Thick after a lovely warm (for March) weekend away. Bests Ian Last edited by sixchannel; 03/20/22 11:03 AM. Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709752 03/20/22 12:10 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,375 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,375 Hamlin NY	How did you get micro-chords to work without a chord on the first beat prior to inserting micro-chords? Every time I tried that micro-chords didn't work. Plus it doesn't care what chord to put on the first beat. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) micro.jpg (79.43 KB, 131 downloads) Last edited by MarioD; 03/20/22 12:11 PM. I haven't lost all of my marbles but there is a small hole in the bag someplace! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709754 03/20/22 12:24 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,812 Wauconda DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 12,812 Wauconda	Originally Posted By: sixchannel Hi Jim Musically baffled. No idea what a 'motif' is and the video sadly assumes I do. Good question, a motif is "a short succession of notes producing a single impression; a brief melodic or rhythmic formula out of which longer passages are developed." Like an arpeggio or a lick. My question is how is this accomplished in BIAB. It seems this would need a bit of time, so you have to give it room to play. Can't lay out a 1/16th chordal run and expect the moftif to make itself evident. So maybe it does not play the chord but rather just the an individual chord tone(s) for as long as it has time until it hits the next chord. I hope to find the time some day to figure all this out. And regarding what Mario said. Sounds interesting, but is that true? BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709794 03/20/22 05:59 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2018 Posts: 83 M mbsmike Enthusiast
mbsmike Enthusiast M Joined: Jan 2018 Posts: 83	I think I would try putting a chord on the first beat of the micro chord bar. My experience has been that the instruction on the previous bar is saying follow this (held chord?) until the next "regular" chord is played. Again this has worked for me but your mileage may vary? Mike Focusrite 2i2 2nd Gen Windows 10 pro 1709 16299.125 Intel core i7 6700k CPU @ 4.00GHz 4.01 GHz 16 gig memory BIAB UltraPak version is 2025 (Latest) Cubase pro 9

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709834 03/21/22 03:08 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Here is the actual MC bar. Its the same in both cases. You can see that Beat 1 HAS a chord in it in both cases. I can't add what's already there. In the first case it works exactly as I expect in that it creates a strong Push forward of that Db and Db/Ab in Beat2 and the F and C play fine as normal. In the second case Beats 1 and 2 are completely ignored, just the F and C (Beats 3 and 4) playing. Surely I'm missing something here - why should it ignore Beats 1 and 2 no matter what is in the previous bar? Bests ian Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) MICROCHORDS2.JPG (70.54 KB, 98 downloads) Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709898 03/21/22 07:02 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,375 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,375 Hamlin NY	Putting a chord on the first beat in micro-chords does not work here. You must put a chord on the first beat in the chord window, not in the micro-chord window, for micro-chords to work. I know that sounds counter productive but it is the way it is. I think this is because of band aids on old code. Great idea but not intuitive to the user. I haven't lost all of my marbles but there is a small hole in the bag someplace! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? DrDan #709899 03/21/22 07:04 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,375 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,375 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted By: MusicStudent ............... And regarding what Mario said. Sounds interesting, but is that true? That is the way it worked here. It didn't matter what chord I put in the chord window as the micro-chords always played correctly. I did try this with a few styles and I always got the same results. Note that I used MIDI and not RTs. You might want to experiment with it to see if it works the same way for you. I haven't lost all of my marbles but there is a small hole in the bag someplace! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: MICROCHORDS USE ISSUE? sixchannel #709918 03/21/22 08:18 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,250 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Some Progress. Thanks to Mario I have SOME sucess with Bar 44. I tried what he said and put a single chord (Db) in BEFORE invoking the Microchords chart. They then worked. Sort of. However, Bar 43 has a Held Db (Db...) that I want to continue into Bar44 prior to the Push created in Beat 2. Guess what? It doesnt. The Db in Beat 1 plays - obviously. I can't remove that Beat 1 Db or I'm back where I started. What is unexplained is why Bar 23 worked just by putting the chords into the microchord chart. Its what I actually would have expected. Of course the bar prior does NOT have a Held chord in it. My next fumble about will be to try and get that Db... working a beat longer. Bests Ian Last edited by sixchannel; 03/21/22 08:24 AM. Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

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