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David, you've always commented on my songs but I haven't heard many of yours until today. Hi, Ronnie! Glad you could stop by for a listen! I love this, it's mellow, and the vocals are breath taking... Thanks! Middle of the road seems to be my wheelhouse. I keep telling myself next time I'll do something more rocking, and then get distracted by all the pretty electric pianos and fingerpicked guitars in BiaB and end up writing something like this.  Thanks for listening and commenting!
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Nice one...a very cool example of the synth vocal sitting in a good song. Thanks, ray! There're a few sibilant things that could be addressed...most particularly in the 1st Sunshine. Yeah, I really should go through this and do a bit more cleanup. Part of my motivation is that I wanted to get it out the door (so to speak) and figured it was "good enough". That's not really a good reason, is it?  The other thing is that I'm a bit leery about overdoing the correction of the sibilance and end up with a bunch of lisping vocals. Since the aspiration is on a separate track, I really don't have any excuse not to apply a de-esser. I guess it's time to pull out BlockFish and learn how to use it.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Thanks, Byron. Wait! The vocals are fake? I tell you, they actually sound more real than some of the auto-tuned vocals from actual humans that I've heard. Pretty cool, huh? I used to post a bit more prominently that I was using synthetic voices, but I figured most people had figured it out by now, so it wasn't necessary. As long as they don't distract too much from the song, it's fine for my purposes.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Yeah. That's a pretty amazing piece of software. Its not really obvious, but when you listen closely there is something "not quite right" about the vocals. I think it is that they are too pitch perfect and lack the various inflections that real singers have. But I also think that because they are initially generated pitch perfect they also lack some of the weird artifacts that heavily auto-tuned vocals have.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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I think it is that they are too pitch perfect and lack the various inflections that real singers have. But I also think that because they are initially generated pitch perfect they also lack some of the weird artifacts that heavily auto-tuned vocals have. There's actually an option to "auto-tune" the vocals, that does the exact opposite of what you might think. In the Vocaloid and UTAU community (which is where SynthesizerV came out of) the term doesn't refer to pitch correction - the pitch is already "correct", as you hint at. "Tuning" in this context refers to the process of adding the elements of performance such as vibrato, over and undershoot, and the "imperfections" of a real vocal performance. SynthesizerV is trained on example songs in the singer's style, so it's able to apply the performance "tuning" automatically. At least, as far as the pitch is concerned. So the vocal actually does have the imperfect pitches inflections that a real singer has. There are a lot of other factors that you can control in SynthesizerV, such as Loudness, Tension, Breathiness, and so on. But there's no obvious way to observe these features - and thus train a neural network on them - so only Pitch Deviation is the only "automatic" feature in SynthesizerV. The rest would have to be tweaked by hand - which in this case, I didn't do.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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I really don't have any excuse not to apply a de-esser. I guess it's time to pull out BlockFish and learn how to use it. I'd heartily recommend not using a de-esser but using a pre effects volume envelope to reduce the level of the esses. It'll take a little longer BUT the results are better. If your DAW allows spectral representation then it'd be even easier.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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What a brilliant job of creativity, David. Right from building the band, modifying the changes, picking the singer. Man, I really like the drums you've fashioned here. Terrific strings, too.
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I had as much fun reading your notes in the OP as I did listening to this song. I enjoyed your blow by blow on how you did things, paying attention to the smallest details to get it right. I liked how you copy and pasted the "d" in I'd to have it sound correct. That sounds like one of my editing sessions.... "hey, that kick/drum fill sounds good there.... I'll drop that fill into THIS spot and...waaa laaa, yep, that's so much better!"
So much work went into this. I'm 100% with you on lyric writing.... to me, that's always the hardest part of any song project...so many starts and an almost equal number of dead ends. One never knows where the next flash of divine inspiration will come from.
You have become a master of the synth voice. Unless one listens closely, it is very difficult to tell this is a synth. The amount of learning to get that sounding real, is astounding.
I thought I heard a really clicky sounding drum track.... but I listened on my buds and in the buds, this sounded even better...fuller, with a nice ear candy kind of sound and the clicky drums were not in evidence. So it must have been the crappy computer speakers on this desktop.
Nicely done.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 04/10/22 02:57 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I'd heartily recommend not using a de-esser but using a pre effects volume envelope to reduce the level of the esses. It'll take a little longer BUT the results are better. If your DAW allows spectral representation then it'd be even easier. Hi, Ray. That's what I normally do.  But I figured I'd take this as an opportunity to actually learn how to use the de-esser, even though in the end I'd likely go the route you suggested anyway. Edit: I just watched this video showing that Reaper lets you select a time segment, and use Ctrl+Shift+MouseDrag to quickly build volume envelopes. That's a time saver I wish I knew about that'll make this much easier.  I should spend more time reading the manual, little things like this make a big difference!
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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What a brilliant job of creativity, David. Right from building the band, modifying the changes, picking the singer. Man, I really like the drums you've fashioned here. Terrific strings, too. Hi, Marty. Thanks, I appreciate your positive comments! I'm still a bit on the fence about the drums, but probably too lazy to change them. After a while, things start to grow on you... even parts of the song you might not have been so keen on from the start.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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I had as much fun reading your notes in the OP as I did listening to this song. I enjoyed your blow by blow on how you did things, paying attention to the smallest details to get it right. Hi, Herb. Actually, there were a number of things that I skipped, like fixing the level of the plosives and sibilants. Gotta go back and do that now. I also didn't do the usual shaping with the other Parameters, because I was happy with the results as they are. I might go back and see if playing with those makes any difference. You know the story - you're never finished with a song, you just run out of time. I'm 100% with you on lyric writing.... to me, that's always the hardest part of any song project...so many starts and an almost equal number of dead ends. One never knows where the next flash of divine inspiration will come from. I keep promising myself I'll do it the other way round, but I never do. It feels like I don't have a natural-born storyteller bone in my body. Instead, writing is a process of refining via editing, and it takes a while to figure out what a song wants to be. David Snyder kindly gave me a chorus the other month, and I found I couldn't do anything with it. I just haven't figured out how to make my brain work that way. I suspect that a lot of it has to do with my inner editor insisting that I try to write something original, despite the fact that it's all been said before, and said better. I think one of the reason this "backwards" process works with me is that eventually my inner editor to throw his hands up in exasperation and accepts that it's OK to write a simple song. You have become a master of the synth voice. Unless one listens closely, it is very difficult to tell this is a synth. The amount of learning to get that sounding real, is astounding. I'd like to take some credit here, but a lot of it is the program. Plus, I've heard what others done that just blows me away. It reminds me that there's still a lot that I need to learn! I thought I heard a really clicky sounding drum track.... but I listened on my buds and in the buds, this sounded even better...fuller, with a nice ear candy kind of sound and the clicky drums were not in evidence. So it must have been the crappy computer speakers on this desktop. There's another place where I skimped. I've got a bunch of speaker simulations that let me test the mix under different settings. And I haven't listened to it in my car yet - the most brutal of all test for the mixes! Thanks for your in-depth comments!
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Hey man. This sounds cool. Loved that style. I will have to try that one out myself. Really nice arrangement here. On the finger squeaks, I mentioned elsewhere that I lucked into an inexpensive version of Rx9 Standard and they "have an app for that." It works really well and is super easy. I will be using it a lot. There was not enough information about your process though. Could you add a few more pages???
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Hey man. This sounds cool. Loved that style. I will have to try that one out myself. Hi, David. Glad you could make it by! I have a feeling that your song using this style will be entirely different than anything I could imagine! On the finger squeaks, I mentioned elsewhere that I lucked into an inexpensive version of Rx9 Standard and they "have an app for that." It works really well and is super easy. I will be using it a lot. Way back when, I'd purchased Spectro for doing spectral edits. But it's now built into Reaper, so I could have used that. But why do it the right way when the quick and dirty solution works just as well? There was not enough information about your process though. Could you add a few more pages??? That's what I'm doing responding to people's comments. Can't you tell? Thanks for listening and commenting!
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Spring with quite deep melancholy, surprising combination. Not inside looking out, but outside looking in. Interesting chord progression, wasn't sure whether there was a discord, but it works anyway. Nice calm arrangement, I like especially the cello and picking guitars. Qing Su has a nice voice, little bit breathy, but doesn't bother me. And I'll be waiting for your song with a chorus in it Janne
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Firstly we enjoyed reading the track listing, the fx section and the entire backstory.
I wish more folks would include "how it came about" and "what's in it" info.
Janice immediately noted how much she likes the prosody of this ... and all your lyrics.
We like the new singer and, yes, she does have a bit of the Vega vibe ... had to sneak in an alteration.
Nine RT's and a RD and yet the mix sets up an excellent soundstage.
That ain't easy to do in our book.
Last but assuredly not least the melody is excellent.
Dunno how you do it but you do it well and we enjoyed the listens.
J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Amazing vocal AI ... I have never heard a AI sound so real. Where do you get this from?
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Hi, Janne. Spring with quite deep melancholy, surprising combination. Not inside looking out, but outside looking in. Well, there's a season of Lent that precedes the Easter that's traditionally a time for introspection and change. So it's sort of baked into my Liturgical calendar, even if I stubbornly refuse to make any progress from year to year. Interesting chord progression, wasn't sure whether there was a discord, but it works anyway. Good ears! It flirts just a bit with chromaticism and a bit of ambiguity of key in places. Nice calm arrangement, I like especially the cello and picking guitars. Thanks! There are some really pretty sounds in BiaB, and these are some of my favorite. Qing Su has a nice voice, little bit breathy, but doesn't bother me. I'm glad the voice worked for you. And I'll be waiting for your song with a chorus in it That makes two of us - I'll see what I can do. Thanks for stopping to comment! Janne [/quote]
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Chorus? What chorus?
David, amazing write. Neat mix of genres. Very creative stuff. Robo girl stood up well against this non-mainstream tune. Mix is excellent to my ears. Smooth listen. Good one!
Thank you for sharing.
Misha.
P.S. I have a non-BIAB musical buddy. He was playing around with vocal synths for BGVs, but when I played your last song for him, he was totally blown away.
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David,
Very sweet song!
SynthesizerV: Qing Su is wonderful.
And the drum sound is so interesting.
I think that the chord progression is well devised, including the pedal point of the bass.
However, since various melody motifs come out, that is, the composition of the song is a little complicated, I am worried that it is difficult to remember all the melodies.
But the whole atmosphere is very nice. It's very comfortable.
I also think Qing's voice fits this song very well.
Enjoyed my listen a lot.
Best regards.
Shigeki Adachi
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Remarkable quality of the vocal synth, delivering a cleverly rhyming set of lyrics.
Your choice of band members sits perfectly with this song, and the subsequent 'tweaking' has provided a worthwhile result.
Nice job, no question.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
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Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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