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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Hi Nigel,
I sometimes use the "Render Audio File" dialog, with the same settings in your attachment, but usually, I right click on the track I want in the mixer, then left click on "Track Actions" and select "Save Track as a WAV File"
Biab will then render the file and save to my project folder...
I then copy or drag the WAV file into my Cakewalk project...
Then I almost always use a Hi-Pass Filter, Pan, EQ, Compress, Sweeten etc.
Bandcamp Soundcloud Win-11; BiaB-2024-latest Beta;
Cakewalk; Melodyne-5; Scaler 2; NI Komplete:
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Hi Matt,
And does dragging each track to your DAW solve the problem?
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I guess I have to say Yes because it works and I’ve continued to do it the ‘old’ way.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Bloc-Head and Matt,
Thanks for your responses.
It is clear that no BIAB user nor PG Music can hear this problem - just me.
So I'll drop the subject.
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2019
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Hi Bloc-Head and Matt,
Thanks for your responses.
It is clear that no BIAB user nor PG Music can hear this problem - just me.
So I'll drop the subject.
Best Regards
Nigel Not just you. I've been having this problem for quite sometime. Although, I use the Rendering of the MIX, primarily. The mix sounds very different when listening in BIAB, versus what comes out of the render. I've used ".wav" files and 24bit/48k/320k ".mp3" files, with the same results. Dull, Muddy, or maybe reduced dynamic range.... I don't know what it is for sure. I generally try to do my mixing in BIAB, but have to generate the track many times to get something close to the mix I want in the Render. Thought it was just me. (Maybe it is!)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I recommend you stay with it.
I also think we need someone who knows Reaper well. Is there some setting in Reaper that could reduce the sample or bit rates of audio files sent to a project?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Nigel…
Dunno if i can help. I’m a long time reaps user bloke from day 1..v0.99.
I got q’s.
1..Under X top right hand of reaps main screen..please post back info.
2..What is your sound device , and what are its bit depth and sampling rate ?
I would also ask on reaps forums too.
maybe thunderthud could post same info.
Cheers
om
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I recommend you stay with it.
I also think we need someone who knows Reaper well. Is there some setting in Reaper that could reduce the sample or bit rates of audio files sent to a project? Another long term Reaper guy here. But from the beginning of this thread I have been a bit confused. Seems the tracks are exported dry, no eq and no panning!! Otherwise, I am not aware of any Reaper import feature which would downgraded the full audio. Those guys over there do frequency mapping to verify audio is not adversly impacted by input or output so I don't think the answer is there.
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I recommend you stay with it.
I also think we need someone who knows Reaper well. Is there some setting in Reaper that could reduce the sample or bit rates of audio files sent to a project? Another long term Reaper guy here. But from the beginning of this thread I have been a bit confused. Seems the tracks are exported dry, no eq and no panning!! Otherwise, I am not aware of any Reaper import feature which would downgraded the full audio. Those guys over there do frequency mapping to verify audio is not adversly impacted by input or output so I don't think the answer is there. You're no doubt correct, Dan. Yes, I'm really reaching here, since we seem to be collectively stumped.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Guys,
Bingo! - I've found a solution with the help of Google and some Reaper Blogs. It's nothing to do with BIAB - it's a setting in Reaper.
It's quite an odd solution. So I just need to do a little more research on the background of this setting, how and why it does what it does.
I will be back in touch with details of the solution shortly.
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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O Boy, don't make us wait too long as we are dying with an... tis.... i... pa .... 
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Folks,
After I render a Band In A Box song to my DAW it sounds dull when played back in my DAW. Less treble and more boomy - especially the Bass.
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks for your help.
Best Regards
Nigel You're not doing anything wrong. I get the same thing. BUT....The honest truth is that you want your tracks to sound plain vanilla in the beginning. All that matters is that you have a good signal strength and it is what you want musically. You don't want tracks coming in with built in compression or verb, or anything else. You're going to add that in the mixing process of you need it. So, my simple solution is this. I use Ozone, and I use some other EQ and reverb that's default in my DAW, Sonar. Ozone is a mastering suite with EQ, reverb, widening, multi-band compression and several other things. It puts the polish on the files. I like it because it has a bunch of very useful presets that get you at least 80% of the way to a really good sounding mix. I like to insert it into my DAW's master buss. Start with it off, hit play, and then turn it on to hear the difference. Every so often I will bypass the FX to see if I'm still on course. As with most plugins...... less is often more, but it's ultimately up to you. If you don't have Ozone.... go to https://www.izotope.com/en/products/ozone.html and download the 10 day free trial. Be forewarned.... if you do the free trial, you better have the money ready because there's no way once you try it that you will want to be without it. Guaranteed!
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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True enough; +1 for Ozone.
So it might after all be a setting in Reaper? Let us know.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Dan, Matt & Others,
The problem is:
Prefs > Project > Media Item Defaults > Create automatic fade in/out
The default setting is 0:00.010 i.e. a tiny fade in and out on every track.
This setting exists to prevent clicks at the start of media items (ie. when the waveform doesn't start at a zero crossing). So if you reduce it or disable this setting, you'll need to manually check and edit your audio to eliminate clicks when they occur (which you probably do anyway).
This doesn't make sense to me because it is not just the initial transient in a track/media item that sounds dull - it is every note.
The Solution is:
I set this to 0:00.000 in my Reaper System Wide Preferences. (I also set the crossfade to 0:00.000 just in case). Then I closed down and restarted Reaper (to make sure the new preferences were being used).
Then I imported some BIAB Wav (Media) files and Bingo - they are absolutely identical to when you listen to the same tracks in BIAB.
For me the improvement in sound quality was most evident in two handed piano tracks because Pianos have more harmonics than most other instruments.
I then went ahead and created a mix in Reaper and Boy - it was just so much quicker and easier. This is because it's easy to dull an instrument in Reaper (or any DAW) but completely recovering lost highs and mids is simply not possible. Exactly the same as a photo with blown highlights.
I hope this helps.
NB - Herb - Yes I use Ozone and most other Izotope products at various stages of mixing and mastering - great software!
Best Regards
Nigel
Last edited by NigelSpiers; 05/15/22 04:44 PM.
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Nigel,
Thanks for the update. I've been closely following this thread. I'm so glad you persisted in your investigation until you found a solution.
Many DAWs enable their version of "automatic crossfade" by default. That means many Band-in-a-Box users may be encountering the same issue you experienced but may not even realize it. You've likely helped many more users than you realize.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Nigel,
you're right - it makes no sense at all BUT if it works it works...being constantly modified Reaper has some oddities to be sure.
I've been pondering whether to stop the auto fade in for a couple of months now and it can cause slight level fluctuations in sensitive sustained notes when editing.
I'll do it today. THANKS.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'm just amazed Reaper would have such a hazard. It was the only thing that made any sense.
I'm glad for many others that you stuck with this, Nigel.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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When I inject the Biab tracks into Reaper it don't put in any crossfades where there is item overlap, but if I move it then it will add auto crossfade, not sure where you would have these with a consolidated wav file unless you have rendered the section separately. There is only a tiny fade in out added to an item to turn the volume down at that point, this should not effect the tone of the rest of the wav file. There are scripts/actions to automatically remove fades/crossfades from all items. Bigger 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi,
"There is only a tiny fade in out added to an item to turn the volume down at that point, this should not effect the tone of the rest of the wav file."
Yes weird - but true!
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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If you can render a track that stands out with the fade in/out and render one without them and post it in the bug forum https://forum.cockos.com/forumdisplay.php?f=22
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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