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ToneStone and Vinyl Dreams are two start-ups that offer audio production tools designed to be less intimidating than existing software to bring music creation to the masses. Is it possible one of them may become the next PG Music? +++ Article +++To me, +++ Bandlab +++ accomplishes the ease-of-use and understand goal set forth in the article. Especially when you consider the free soundpacks they offer.
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THey have a lot of catching up to do....
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I think Bandlab has some cool sample packs, and I may use them, but I would use them in a DAW like Cakewalk, their own free DAW, which is wicked cool and wicked smart. There is so much loop-based music out there for people who don't know music, that I can't tell what this adds. I am pretty sure I would never listen to anything created with it, and I am not a snob, I just don't like noise. So, I wonder why the Boston Globe never picked up on Band-in-a-Box as the salvation for all mankind. Do they not realize that with playable real tracks you can pick your own notes on a grid and not have to know a darned thing about sheet music??? It's more fun than Candy Crush. How did they miss it??? 
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eddie1261
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I see this kind of stuff as another shortcut to let wannabe types pretend to be musicians. When a product comes right and says something way too close to "Yes!! You too can become a hitmaker without having to let any of that pesky 'learning about music' getting in your way."
Even then if you look at their GUI it shows I-IV-V as an option. Does a green newb know what that means?
There are still times that I think BIAB and RB are cheating. Then I remember that musicians can be total asshats and say "Yeah I'm okay with cheating."
Last edited by eddie1261; 06/03/22 12:53 AM.
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Gave it a quick try. Cute "toy" but very limited. But I think democratizing complex tasks is a great use of technology. I don't know where I would be without Canva.... Does anybody remember life before Canva?
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BiaB has a couple of advantages.
1) Working with musicians for decades, getting feedback from those musicians, and using that feedback to improve the product
2) A user base who knows how to use the software. When something works well, as BiaB does, why start to climb the learning curve for something else?
The QWERTY keyboard is an example. It was invented to slow down typing so the typist wouldn't jam the typewriter keys. In the early days of computing, there was a software switch to change the arrangement to the much faster, much easier to use DVORAK keyboard layout. It was dropped due to lack of demand. People already knew how to use QWERTY.
So I don't think we have to worry about PG Music in the short term. It's a damn good product, and we know how to use it.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I see this kind of stuff as another shortcut to let wannabe types pretend to be musicians. When a product comes right and says something way too close to "Yes!! You too can become a hitmaker without having to let any of that pesky 'learning about music' getting in your way." Yeah, that's Bob's (90db) Starmaker Machine!
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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God forbid that someone need to put any actual effort into anything.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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God forbid that someone need to put any actual effort into anything. Agreed. I hear auto-tune kings and queens in the media, and I am immediately turned off. So is the media. Relief is just a 'click' away. If you can't sing on pitch, you are not a singer. Auto-tune may help you stay on pitch, but it also suppresses and even remove a lot of the nuances that a good singer will put into the music. For an example, I'll use a very old song, Otis Redding's "I've Been Loving You Too Long". It's close to the beginning, so you don't have to wait a long time for it. He sings, "You were tired, and you want to be free." The word "Tired" starts flat and as he holds it, the note ever so slowly approaches being in tune. The dissonance creates the tension and expresses the pain of his woman leaving him. Auto-tune would have wiped that out. Using auto-tune would be like putting strings on the guitar that are impossible to bend. I play sax, flute, wind synth, guitar, bass, drums, keys, and vocals. Voice was the hardest instrument of all to learn, it took time, it took practice and although barely adequate came quickly, it took a long time to become decent. On the other hand, some technology can be good. One good example is BiaB's harmonizing feature. When making a backing track for my duo, I can put the top note of a string, horn, or other instrument into the melody track, and have BiaB harmonize it. BiaB does that job using the rules I learned in theory class. Some tools are good, some are bad, and some are either good or bad depending on the situation and how extensively they are used. That's my story and I'm sticking to it  Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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eddie1261
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Not only does this dummy down the educational part of things, it helps put those neighborhood music stores we love out of business. Who needs to buy (and learn how to play) instruments if you can click a mouse and have a computer play them for you?
Yes. Band in a Box does this. BUT, most of us (if I may consider myself in this group) old skool users play instruments and use the tools to AUGMENT what we do, not BECOME it. Geeze I just dropped $500 on a Kurweil keyboard to have it here to use like a sketch artist would have tablets all over the house to rough sketch ideas. All of that is lost on "microwave music" software like this new product.
As big of a fan as I am of BIAB/RB for what it does for ME, it is far too often used as a shortcut to avoid waiting in the line that is music education. And that is sad on many level. The sheer joy of learning is lost on this generation.
I griped out loud here at home the whole time I was putting together that Life Is Hard video. Things like "Man this is really time consuming." and "The help module of this software is insanely weak!" and often turned to the web to see videos about how to do something. That was followed by a sense of accomplishment as I figured out what I was trying to do. 50 hours went into making that 14 minute video, but when it was done, the sense of accomplishment I felt was worth every second. I can now say I am somewhat proficient in Vegas Pro. I can do accurate cuts and fades. I can do side by side video. I know how to detach audio from video, insert stills into videos, stretch those stills for as long as I need them to run... It was truly a great learning experience and if we do it again next year (Herbstock!) I will shoot with more cameras, ask people to shoot video and send it to me so I can use the best stuff. I went from "WHY did I say I'd do the video??" to "NEXT year here's what I am going to do."
"Do it for me" software denies us that joy.
Last edited by eddie1261; 06/04/22 06:10 AM.
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Not only does this dummy down the educational part of things, it helps put those neighborhood music stores we love out of business. Who needs to guy buy (and learn how to play) instruments if you can click a mouse and have a computer play them for you?
Yes. Band in a Box does this. BUT, most of us (if I may consider myself in this group) old skool users play instruments and use the tools to AUGMENT what we do, not BECOME it. Geeze I just dropped $500 on a Kurweil keyboard to have it here to use like a sketch artist would have tablets all over the house to rough sketch ideas. All of that is lost on "microwave music" software like this new product.
As big of a fan as I am of BIAB/RB for what it does for ME, it is far too often used as a shortcut to avoid waiting in the line that is music education. And that is sad on many level. The sheer joy of learning is lost on this generation.
..................... I agree.
Waitress "How did you find your steak sir"?
Me "I just looked next to the potatoes and there it was"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Eddie, I am generally averse to generalities because they almost never work out, but I think the one I am about to make will come sorta close to the truth. Maybe. I dunno. I seems that music programs (and many other thing) are being marketing towards two basic types of people: 1.) People who like to figure things out. 2.) People who like the program to do everything so no thought is required. It seems to me that BIAB falls into slot # 1. Sure, it makes things easier, but you still have to put some time in (just as you did on video editing) to figure things out. Work is involved. It forces you to study music to some degree whether you want to or not. And there are varying degree of input it needs from you. You can choose all real tracks, for example, or you can use a few real tracks and play the rest. But still, you have to study and learn and apply yourself to be able to use it well. There is a SECOND class of products where people just play beats and loops or whatever and start singing the same old riffs the moment something pops into their head: "Oh baby, yeah, you know it girl, I can feel it girl, all up in inside, yeah you know I will, girl keep it real, all I need to feel, give it time to heal, like a spinning wheel..." Hey that was awesome! Well maybe. I ain't gonna knock it. If that is what you want to do, it's a free country. It's just that this type of "music" makes me wants to scream out loud and I can't find the off button fast enough. To each his own I suppose. And again, the PG Music products open up wide vistas, but they still force you to think about what you are doing. The video you recorded for the reunion shows that in action, and proves it, even though we were doing an educational comedy skit.
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I never fail to get a huge laugh from this forum when old musicians start complaining about people using software that makes music creation easier!
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I don't think anyone is complaining John. I just hear people saying there are some programs that force you to learn SOMETHING and think SOMETHING whereas there are other programs that don't ask you to think at all.
That is what I heard, for the most part.
And I think it is true.
I remember you posting something in a thread a while back saying that you were trying to learn new skills and up your game. That is good. Good for you.
I think that is all people have ever been saying in these threads:
LEARN something.
And there ARE programs that let you get away with learning NOTHING.
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David, different strokes for different folks.
If someone wants to raise their own goats, slaughter them, and then use their skins to build custom drums because playing store-bought drums is "cheating" then so be it! Good for them!
At the other end of the spectrum is someone who wishes to make music but has zero interest in playing drums so they buy EZ Drummer 3. And they are able to lay down a killer drum track in minutes with little effort or learning. Again, good for them!
To me the result is what matters. Not the process. If I like the music it is good (for me). If I don't like the music I don't feel the need to disrespect its creator because they didn't use my preferred method of making music.
And my overall point was the massive and obvious hypocrisy here by users of BIAB who criticize users of autotune or other software!
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Yeah, I will agree, it is a fine line. I TRY to stay on the right side of it, but really, I have no idea where it is, so that is maybe a waste of time..
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This is thought provoking. There are AI apps for which you can enter a song, select a few parameters, click and voila you have a music video with clips timed to the song. Is this creative (whatever the operational definition of that is)? Does it make one a videographer? Are we far from doing the same with an AI audio app? ... like, create me a song about X at the tempo of Y and in the style of Z with a female voice and male harmony. Does the result make one a musician? Does an app that in one click turns an average or less photo into a decent looking water color appearance make one an artist? Are all the ridiculously color oversaturated photos or the "no wrinkles and snow white teeth photos" on social media "artistic?" And even though I'm one of the oldest guys on the forum do the above thoughts make me a curmudgeon? Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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J&B, I was going to show you an AI site I ran across about six months ago that will write both your lyrics and your music for you with one click. It generated stuff that sounds JUST like a lot of new stuff on Spotify. But when I went BACK A FEW MINUTES ago, Norton blocked it with a bunch of red screaming banners saying: "THIS IS A KNOWN DANGEROUS WEBSITE!!!!!!!!! YOU HAVE BEEN BLOCKED!!!!!! I think it was a message from God man. On the age thing, I regularly play and work and collab with folks from the age of 18 to 75, or more, and no one really seems to care about anything but this: Are you any good? So I would just say keep on going man. That's what I will do until I am dead. I really don't stop to think about it for two seconds. Just having too much fun. I have been having non-stop fun my whole life and see no reason to stop. And no. You are not a curmudgeon. Unless I am.
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Yeah, I will agree, it is a fine line. I TRY to stay on the right side of it, but really, I have no idea where it is, so that is maybe a waste of time.. Yeah, I could kinda understand the elitism if this was a website forum dedicated to advanced musicianship and some rookie came in bragging about a musical piece they "created" using some software program, like, oh you know, BIAB! But, on the actual BIAB forum, to get all uppity because someone uses autotune or doesn't actually play their instruments strikes me as especially tone deaf (no pun intended!) But some in this group have surprised me in the past with similar blind spots. One guy was going on about how open mics steal work from actual working musicians while he used BIAB to, wait for it, eliminate actual working musicians from his act!
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John, I have to agree with you on a fundamental level, because of the very nature of logic itself. I have said many times that if you have ever used ONE real track in a song, you no longer have the right to criticize anyone for using too many real tracks, because, well, you aren't God. You don't get to draw that line. Which means by extension, you also can't then complain about people letting BIAB do all the work--by logic, you can't. You have surrendered the right to say anything if you have ever used ONE real track in ONE song. It's like this: If you steal a bottle of beer from a convenience store, you can't criticize a guy who robbed a bank. Stealing is stealing. If that is kinda what you're getting at, I say you just made checkmate.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
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Regular hours resume Tuesday, May 19th!
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
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Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
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202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
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-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
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