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And just to be clear, I have no delusions that my posts will change the minds of the "get off my lawn" crowd! But maybe, just maybe, a new BIAB user, perhaps someone who doesn't even know what AARP stands for, will see that not everyone here expects your song to be handmade from scratch (and complete with homegrown goat skin drums!)
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Journeyman
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David, different strokes for different folks.
If someone wants to raise their own goats, slaughter them, and then use their skins to build custom drums because playing store-bought drums is "cheating" then so be it! Good for them!
At the other end of the spectrum is someone who wishes to make music but has zero interest in playing drums so they buy EZ Drummer 3. And they are able to lay down a killer drum track in minutes with little effort or learning. Again, good for them!
To me the result is what matters. Not the process. If I like the music it is good (for me). If I don't like the music I don't feel the need to disrespect its creator because they didn't use my preferred method of making music.
And my overall point was the massive and obvious hypocrisy here by users of BIAB who criticize users of autotune or other software!
Argumentum ad absurum.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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David, different strokes for different folks.
If someone wants to raise their own goats, slaughter them, and then use their skins to build custom drums because playing store-bought drums is "cheating" then so be it! Good for them!
At the other end of the spectrum is someone who wishes to make music but has zero interest in playing drums so they buy EZ Drummer 3. And they are able to lay down a killer drum track in minutes with little effort or learning. Again, good for them!
To me the result is what matters. Not the process. If I like the music it is good (for me). If I don't like the music I don't feel the need to disrespect its creator because they didn't use my preferred method of making music.
And my overall point was the massive and obvious hypocrisy here by users of BIAB who criticize users of autotune or other software!
Argumentum ad absurum. I was told there would be no Latin. Especially from Texas!
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Journeyman
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Ya know, I have a pretty thick skin but some of your comments are starting to go in the direction of personal insults.
Besides, they are ridiculous.
The negative reaction is not against creative software. The negative reaction is against software as a substitute for skill and effort.
Last edited by Byron Dickens; 06/04/22 10:40 AM.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Ya know, I have a pretty thick skin but some of your comments are starting to go in the direction of personal insults.
Besides, they are ridiculous.
The negative reaction is not against creative software. The negative reaction is against software as a substitute for skill and effort. Calm down...I'll get off yer lawn!
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Ya know, I have a pretty thick skin but some of your comments are starting to go in the direction of personal insults.
Besides, they are ridiculous.
The negative reaction is not against creative software. The negative reaction is against software as a substitute for skill and effort. Calm down...I'll get off yer lawn! Since you don't have anything intelligent to say....
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Ya know, I have a pretty thick skin but some of your comments are starting to go in the direction of personal insults.
Besides, they are ridiculous.
The negative reaction is not against creative software. The negative reaction is against software as a substitute for skill and effort. Calm down...I'll get off yer lawn! Since you don't have anything intelligent to say.... I forgot how fun it is here!
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Closing statement is a gem:
"But this opens that creativity up to a much bigger audience that is denied access now.”
Really?? There are sooo many free or near free music making programs that are super easy to use, FX, sounds, midi, loops that it is not even funny. Any kid with a phone and a few drops of talent can make something "listenable" these days.
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Misha,
But wait!
So, you are saying that Spotify, free Soundcloud, Bandlab, Free Ableton Live, and Free Cakewalk by Bandlab and a reasonably priced BIAB aren't the oppressors, who are trying to keep us down, and lock us out of the world of free music???
Is that...what you are...saying?
I don't need to pay the angel investors of these products a $19.95 a month subscription for the new service so I am no longer being held down by the man???
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Expert
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win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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Expert
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Originally Posted By: Byron Dickens
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted By: Byron Dickens
Ya know, I have a pretty thick skin but some of your comments are starting to go in the direction of personal insults.
Besides, they are ridiculous.
The negative reaction is not against creative software. The negative reaction is against software as a substitute for skill and effort.
Calm down...I'll get off yer lawn!
Since you don't have anything intelligent to say....
I forgot how fun it is here!
SAME OLD !!SAME OLD THEN!!
Now imagine coming to check out the forum before buying ! BIAB as i did ! then seeing the video of the latest , greatest in the Biab, forum you would run a mile or be in your 70s .........says tater tot's ...!!!
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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J3, Argumentum ad absurum (and it's actually absurdem) isn't Latin from Texas.
That would be "Argumentum ad absurdum, y'all."
Last edited by eddie1261; 06/04/22 12:58 PM.
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eddie1261
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Actually this is more "reductio ad absurdem". Although that term probably went over YOUR head.
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Well this took at turn for the worst!
FWIW I think anyone who plays an instrument and/or is a vocalist is a winner in my book. They can use whatever means they want to make music. They are artists.
But if someone is just using loops, audio clips, samples, etc, is not a musician in my book. They can create music without any knowledge about what they are doing technically but that does not make them a musician IMHO. A sound manipulator yes, a musician no. YMMV
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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David, Ha-ha, exactly! -- Mario, "But if someone is just using loops, audio clips, samples, etc, is not a musician in my book." I think the term is "beatmaker" "They can create music without any knowledge about what they are doing technically" But what if they do? In old days scrap books were very popular, and some were quite elaborate, with some doodles, neat collages, etc. Done very tastefully. Were these folks artists? There is a term "collagist".... Some of these homebrewed collagists made some pretty cool stuff. I guess its an open question  ------------- Perhaps the automated music toys such as mentioned in the article will inspire somebody to pick up a guitar, piano or even maracas and make some noise. The dark side of having "everybody is a musician" of course is de-valuation of music as art...something special. But then again, music of those who invest a thought & skill in the process, would favorably be more interesting.
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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J3, Argumentum ad absurum (and it's actually absurdem) isn't Latin from Texas.
That would be "Argumentum ad absurdum, y'all." I spelled it right. Whether you want to say Argumentum or reductio ad absurum, its really pretty much the same. I could have also called JohnJohnJohn's argument a strawman and been just as accuate.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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eddie1261
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 Eddie, you're killin' me!
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Did anybody actually try the tool?
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eddie1261
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Other than you? Nobody has said so. And most of the commenters are established musicians who have no need for a beginner level program like this.
I mean, I wouldn't go back to driving school after this many years of driving.
A good many people here have played their song manually many times and charted the chords before even sitting at the computer. My songs are written before I ever even open the tools PG sells us. That is the "knowing music" part. This discussion has never been apples to apples. These new tools are for the person at a level of "So what is this thing you called music?" Clicking icons is not learning music. It's not even really creating. The creating comes before the computer interfacing starts.
The demo screen on their web page shows a selection box for I IV I IV, and V IV I I, etc. How does a green newbie know what those mean?
There's a quote from the owner of this that says he wants to "help people with little musical experience start by taking baby steps." Sitting at a computer clicking on a screen is not gaining "musical experience" any more than eating carrot cake teaches about gardening and baking.
Learn music. Scales, keys, sharps and flats... Then I Iv V will mean something to you.
Remember, the bottom line for these folks is to make money. They likely don't really give a damn about educating the people who give them money. Yet possibly ride that bandwagon that curses school system who eliminate the music department in budget cuts.
With no apologies I will remain old school when it comes to music. Learn the nuts and bolts of the craft. Play music for the art. If your art is good, money will follow. The software that is the focal point of that article is not really what PG software is. It's really like a toy piano vs a Steinway.
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