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Re: 1-4-5 Mike Halloran #725806 07/28/22 10:39 AM Songwriting
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,503 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,503 Hamlin NY	Yo don't get to that level without a lot of knowledge, whether you know music theory or not. You must be able to read chord sheets regardless of the nomenclature. Wes Montgomery was an outstanding jazz guitarist. Here is a clip from a web site "Wes Montgomery couldn't read music, didn't know music theory, and didn't understand his instrument electronics. He also strummed exclusively with his thumb, and idiosyncrasy that would make any music instructor run faint." However he had one hell of an ear for jazz music and recorded some of the best jazz guitar albums every produced, IMHO. The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: 1-4-5 Bass Thumper #725819 07/28/22 12:17 PM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,741 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly Veteran
Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,741 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Beautiful piece you posted there Mr. David. Costa del sol, Malaga Spain, on of my favorite places in the world. Where the song was written, could have been where I first listened to it. Reading that is a lot easier than playing it ...lol That would for sure be a duet for me...lol Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: 1-4-5 Bass Thumper #725820 07/28/22 12:26 PM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,741 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly Veteran
Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,741 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Well, there Roger Brown I like "Five dollars In Change" busted pride and all! I understand you wrote a song for Nanci Griffith. I was just wondering if you knew Eric Taylor. He wrote a song called Moony that I can not find any recording of. I would love to hear it one more time before I get too old to listen. Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: 1-4-5 Planobilly #725822 07/28/22 12:33 PM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2019 Posts: 253 TN R Roger Brown Apprentice
Roger Brown Apprentice R Joined: Jul 2019 Posts: 253 TN	I know the name, but I don't think I ever met him. Although I'm from TX, I moved to Nashville when I was very young (19) and our paths never crossed. Nanci and I became friends one night when I was playing a songwriter show at a bar in Nashville called Bogey's (long gone now). She was having dinner next door with a songwriter named Harlan Howard, and as they were leaving Harlan saw me on stage through the window and told Nanci they should go in and listen (he and I were friends and he thought Nanci would enjoy hearing a fellow Texan). One of the songs I played that night was the song she wound up recording. She very generously invited me to the recording session, and even put an 8x10 picture of me in the music video they wound up doing on the song. She was a very kind, thoughtful and supportive person to me and I miss her. Last edited by Roger Brown; 07/28/22 12:34 PM. http://www.rogerbrownsongs.com http://www.nashvillesongwriters.com/roger-brown

Re: 1-4-5 Bass Thumper #725824 07/28/22 01:04 PM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,741 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly Veteran
Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,741 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Nanci was a wonderful person. I sort of watched her grow up. I also miss her. Some friends of mine and I use to hang out at Anderson Fair. That's where I first met Eric a long time before he and Nanci got married. Also, as you know well the NNS could you type out an example of how to write a chord in a progression that is out of key? Don't ever get old, you can't remember anything...lol Billy EDIT: After thinking about it for a minute I may have remembered. 6- 1 2 4 6- 1 37 37 ( no way to do the small 7 on the computer) the 37 would make the 3- a major 7 (out of key) Last edited by Planobilly; 07/28/22 01:49 PM. “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: 1-4-5 David Snyder #725841 07/28/22 04:02 PM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,228 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,228 Cooran Queensland Australia	Originally Posted By: David Snyder I personally LOVE to read sheet music the way some people love to read novels. Everyone is different, but I love musical notation because you can read the musical story, right in front of your eyes. Funnily enough when I was in early high school (70-73 at a huge govt school in the poorer south western suburbs of Sydney), we had to attend music lessons each week and at some stage we were taught to follow a piece reading the orchestration. We started off with easy stuff...Canon probably and moved to The Death of Ase and then more elaborate things. I've loved following a chart since then BUT I didn't progress in actually reading to play, (beyond a couple of bass lessons), until I took up cello at the beginning of this century. NATURALLY I revisited Grieg with the cello and better reading. Good on my comprehensive, egalitarian, high school for bucking the "preparation for workforce ethos" just a bit and bringing some richness into our lives. Last edited by rayc; 07/28/22 04:05 PM. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: 1-4-5 Mike Halloran #725844 07/28/22 04:14 PM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,228 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,228 Cooran Queensland Australia	Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran Except, of course, folk like Glen Campbell who couldn't read any notation and had to be told the chords but Brian Wilson & others kept hiring him. Exceptions to all rules and rules for all exceptions. Glen Campbell is your example? Now you’re being silly. For the record, though he couldn’t sight-read notes, he had no problem with chord charts and I don’t care how many places you read otherwise. Though I did some dates with him, no reason to take my word for it. Carol Kaye did hundreds of sessions with the man.[/quote] I apologise for not noting that he could read a chord chart -"...told the chords..." wasn't necessarily or often verbal...that was a given I assumed it was understood...let's face it anyone who can read can read a chord chart. CK was one of the sources, along with many other interviews with Wrecking Crew folk for my statement. I could look up the vid or comment about him asking another WC member for the chords but you wouldn't have space to accommodate it if proven so I shan't bother. I also read that he couldn't sight read but his Braille was pretty cool. You are a smug possum aren't you? Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: 1-4-5 David Snyder #725949 07/29/22 10:02 AM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,789 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,789 Middlesex, NC	Originally Posted By: David Snyder I personally LOVE to read sheet music the way some people love to read novels. (Though I love to read novels too--or at least the good ones.) Everyone is different, but I love musical notation because you can read the musical story, right in front of your eyes. Here is a page from a copy of Recuerdos De la Alhambra by Tarrega I marked up. At measure 21 the song goes from A minor to A Major. The build up to this transition is such a work of meticulous planning genius, and it takes my breath away every time. Just flat-out gorgeous. I love to play it, and I love to read it. Just to marvel at the perfection. The ladies seem to love this song as well. Forget Stairway to Heaven. Play this. The A minor to A Major transition first happens in this amazing rendition at the 2 min mark. Interesting side story here: I hired a really talented guitar player in one of the bands I managed and played in. Long story on the guy.... we had a rocky past history as he actually stole my guitar one of the two times it was stolen. Long story short, I got it back the next day and law enforcement handled the details. Several years later I called him and offered him a job, which, after a few minutes of discussion, he accepted. A few months later on the road in a motel room somewhere in NC, I woke up at 3:30am to the sound of classical guitar music coming from..... the bathroom. I got up and walked to the bathroom door and pushed it open..... There he was, sitting on the throne..... (with the seat lid down) sheet music spread out on the tub rim and the floor playing his classical music. He looks up and says.... I couldn't sleep so I thought I'd practice and play my classical stuff while everyone was asleep. The guy was exceptionally talented to say the least. The stuff he was playing was like you hear in this video...... Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/29/22 10:03 AM. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: 1-4-5 Guitarhacker #726051 07/30/22 06:08 AM Songwriting
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,451 North Carolina David Snyder Veteran
David Snyder Veteran Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,451 North Carolina	So Herb, I never figured out the difference between you and me until just now. I started off the story talking about a beautiful lady who looks like an angel playing one of the most beautiful pieces ever written flawlessly in a place that looks like heaven. You ended the story by talking about sharing a fleabag, bed bug-ridden stinky cigarette butt smellin' $5 an hour motel room with a redneck con-artist and instrument thief who was sitting on the can playing the guitar. I just got it. I understand what makes us different. I now also know why you write better country songs than me. David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers https://davidsnydersongs.com/ https://spoti.fi/359Gigs www.davidsnydermusic.com/ www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel https://www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder

Re: 1-4-5 Bass Thumper #726061 07/30/22 08:30 AM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,741 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly Veteran
Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,741 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	LOL...you are a pain in the....David...lol I don't think you are too cool to write good country songs...lol And besides Herb knows where you live, so be careful what you say...lol Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: 1-4-5 Bass Thumper #726064 07/30/22 09:02 AM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,741 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly Veteran
Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,741 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	To get back to The OP's original question. "In other words, what value is there in using the numeric notation that Charlie is describing? " ( In BIAB) My answer is not much unless that is the system you usually use or someone who uses that system needs to read what you entered. There are many good reasons for using NNS as has been discussed in this thread but to learn the system just for the purpose of entering chords into BIAB most likely is not worth the effort. I can say, learning the NNS is very easy if you already understand what the symbols mean in other systems. Basic music theory is not difficult to learn if you have an internet connection. All you need to do is to be able to read and understand simple math terms. If you don't play an instrument or have some other music background then having some understanding of basic music theory is what you will need to acquire to create anything other than organized noise in BIAB. Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: 1-4-5 Planobilly #726112 07/30/22 10:53 PM Songwriting
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 21,066 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 21,066 Melbourne, Australia	Quote: And besides Herb knows where you live, so be careful what you say...lol BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.

Re: 1-4-5 rayc #726298 08/01/22 06:24 PM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,988 Sillie Con Valley, California Mike Halloran Expert
Mike Halloran Expert Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,988 Sillie Con Valley, California	Originally Posted By: rayc Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran Except, of course, folk like Glen Campbell who couldn't read any notation and had to be told the chords but Brian Wilson & others kept hiring him. Exceptions to all rules and rules for all exceptions. Glen Campbell is your example? Now you’re being silly. For the record, though he couldn’t sight-read notes, he had no problem with chord charts and I don’t care how many places you read otherwise. Though I did some dates with him, no reason to take my word for it. Carol Kaye did hundreds of sessions with the man. You are a smug possum aren't you? [/quote] Nah, just someone paying attention to the topic. As I said, I did a few dates with Mr. Campbell over the years if you don’t want to believe Carol Kaye. But, go ahead and find that YouTube video if you must.. BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5

Re: 1-4-5 Bass Thumper #726304 08/01/22 09:49 PM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,228 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,228 Cooran Queensland Australia	I wouldn't want to gainsay you Mr Mike. Crikey, I wouldn't disbelieve you even if Glen Campbell told me otherwise. Then again your experience is from a different era of his career. We all grow & change or shrink and change. Smug as a tug under a rug. Last edited by rayc; 08/01/22 09:58 PM. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: 1-4-5 rayc #726313 08/02/22 01:16 AM Songwriting
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 21,066 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 21,066 Melbourne, Australia	Fantastic interviews. Campbell was a genius who didn't originally know how good he was. Of course, so many of these successes could be attributed to the brilliance of Jim Webb. It was excellent to see his participation. BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.

Re: 1-4-5 rayc #726319 08/02/22 03:08 AM Songwriting
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,503 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,503 Hamlin NY	Ray, thanx for sharing that. Every member of the Wrecking Crew was a super star IMHO. The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal". Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: 1-4-5 AudioTrack #726372 08/02/22 11:02 AM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,228 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,228 Cooran Queensland Australia	Originally Posted By: AudioTrack Fantastic interviews. Campbell was a genius who didn't originally know how good he was. Of course, so many of these successes could be attributed to the brilliance of Jim Webb. It was excellent to see his participation. Yes, Jimmy Webb"s "catalogue" contains more than hits...he had some brilliant misses and completely bonkers projects like the albums with Harris. Every one a gem &, by the look & sounds of it, he was a nice enough person too. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

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