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How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? #726884 08/06/22 12:28 PM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,729 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,729 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	I have observed that in many melodic phrases, the last note of the phrase is the fifth note of a major triad. So...ending a melody with a D will resolve to a G chord because the fifth of G is D. Also ending the same basic melody with an F would resolve to the G7 chord because the note forming the dominate 7th is F. Are there other "transition" notes that typically resolve to a chord and are there classical music theory terms for my questions? Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #726888 08/06/22 01:11 PM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,669 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,669 Middlesex, NC	Assuming the key of G for your example.... it was implied but not explicitly stated. Yes.... you can end your melody on a variety of notes. Each will leave the listener with a different feeling of completeness or a feeling that there is something left to be resolved. Ending on the 5th and 7th will give a relatively modest feeling of completion as will a major 3rd. However, ending on the root.... G, gives a total feeling of resolution to the melody. As the writer, it's up to you to decide how you want to end the song. As far as writing using classical rules..... I don't. At least not intentionally. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #726894 08/06/22 02:11 PM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,729 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,729 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Hi Herb, LOL "At least not intentionally" I am not much good at conforming to any rules...lol Actually, we all most likely conform to classical rules more than we may be aware of. My "classical music theory terms" question was only for the purpose of clear understandable communication. This whole idea is part of a continuing investigation into the importance/use/relationship of the fifth. There are relationships between sounds defined in music theory. Music theory gives us a language to use to communicate with. It may give us an educated guess of where to resolve something that will sound pretty "normal". It is of little use to tell someone "exactly what to play". It is a bit better at describing what was played. Knowing why something sounds good requires knowing something about psychology, physics, culture, and the fact that I have listened to these sounds a zillion times. Thanks for your answer. It gave me a reason to consider what a phrase was and how typically there are several phrases in a row. What note each phrase ends on is controlled to some degree by where the phrase occurs in a group of connected phrases. I am finding a large number of things related to "the fifth". Circle of Fifth and on and on. Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #726901 08/06/22 06:26 PM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,170 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 7,170 Cooran Queensland Australia	AND repetition make it truth (of a sort). Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? rayc #726932 08/07/22 02:51 AM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,669 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,669 Middlesex, NC	Originally Posted By: rayc AND repetition make it truth (of a sort). reminds me of...... “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. J. Goebbels You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #726966 08/07/22 09:24 AM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,352 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,352 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	I would guess that more songs like great American standards have the last note of the melody end on the root. In fact, it’s one of the first places you look to determine what the key is. But of course there are so many exceptions. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #726980 08/07/22 10:37 AM Songwriting
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,808 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,808 Melbourne, Australia	On a similar note, 'Wichita Lineman' is in the key of F, but Jim Webb cleverly transitions the tag to finish the song with a D Major chord, as though it needed that D all along. Such is the genius of Webb's compositions. BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #726998 08/07/22 03:29 PM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,729 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,729 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	I ask this question from the perspective of playing guitar. It is common to play notes/phrases between chords. So, several of these phrases could occur anywhere. I did not have in mind the actual ending of the song but that also would be useful information. All this is just to get a better technical understanding of how certain parts of songs are created. The Wichita Lineman example is a really good piece of music. The use of D major fits the lyrics. This is also an example of why there are no "rules". Perhaps the relative minor of F was considered but that just would not have matched the lyrical content. Wichita Lineman in my mind is sort of in a category all by itself. We should all be so lucky to have Jimmy Webb's skills as a writer! With fantastic writing came the additional input from people who played on the record. Having a group of studio musicians like 'The Wrecking Crew" to work with must have been wonderful. Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #727010 08/07/22 11:05 PM Songwriting
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,808 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,808 Melbourne, Australia	Actually, it's even more interesting because the song transitions not to the relative minor but to a D Major chord. Your statement: "We should all be so lucky to have Jimmy Webb's skills as a writer" further exemplifies Webb's absolute mastery. Now, back to the main program BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #727013 08/08/22 12:10 AM Songwriting
Joined: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,591 Central Ohio E edshaw Expert
edshaw Expert E Joined: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,591 Central Ohio	Here I Am to Worship Here are four bar examples: Line One: starts with the 3 of the One (C) which is E. changes to the 4 of the fifth (G), which is D. Changes to the 1 of the fourth (F) which is F, transitions to Bar #4 with the 5 of the (F) Line Two: Repeat Bars #1 & #2, resolves with the 5 of the (F) which is C and affirms that resolution with change to C strum. Did I get that right? Last edited by edshaw; 08/08/22 12:11 AM. Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use) https://www.Rumble.com/edshaw Biab for WIN 2020 -- Win 10 64bit -- Reaper/Audacity Zoom R-16 -- Tascam DP-03-SD -- SoundTap -- Crescendo --

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? edshaw #727020 08/08/22 01:49 AM Songwriting
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,669 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,669 Middlesex, NC	Originally Posted By: edshaw Here I Am to Worship Here are four bar examples: Line One: starts with the 3 of the One (C) which is E. changes to the 4 of the fifth (G), which is D. Changes to the 1 of the fourth (F) which is F, transitions to Bar #4 with the 5 of the (F) Line Two: Repeat Bars #1 & #2, resolves with the 5 of the (F) which is C and affirms that resolution with change to C strum. Did I get that right? I have always related the notes back to the original key.... however, I see how you are looking at it. Regarding the final measure.... F chord with a C root note..... By playing the F chord which yes... C note is the 5th of that chord which is the 4th in the key of C major..... you have a feeling of incompleteness, that there's more coming, which is the case.... On the other hand if you play a C maj chord in place of the F chord, you have a feeling of it's finished and has been completed. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #727027 08/08/22 02:22 AM Songwriting
Joined: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,591 Central Ohio E edshaw Expert
edshaw Expert E Joined: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,591 Central Ohio	Thanks for that, Herb. Yeah, since this rendition is intended to be used as a practice track, I have tendency to notice the note that is played with the change. That's because my thought is that the musicians sound better when we all make the change at the same time. Today's P & W musicians don't place the same priority on that as some of us oldies. Praise and worship tends toward extended phrases, for some reason. Setting Hillsong to a 4/4 country swing brings its own challenges and rewards, The "Chordie" chords and lyrics I worked from ended that Line Two with two F bars. How interesting for you to point that out, because once I laid the chords into Band in a Box grid, that line seemed to kind of hang there, as an afterthought. Replacing the final F strum with a C showed immediate improvement in the way of resolution. It also smoothed the way to the first chord of Line Three, which happens to be a C, that stanza being a general repeat of Lines one and two. Last edited by edshaw; 08/08/22 02:28 AM. Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use) https://www.Rumble.com/edshaw Biab for WIN 2020 -- Win 10 64bit -- Reaper/Audacity Zoom R-16 -- Tascam DP-03-SD -- SoundTap -- Crescendo --

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #727051 08/08/22 06:03 AM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,729 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,729 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Hi Ed, I had to laugh when I read your comment about musicians playing through the changes. The lead guitar player I played with for many years used to do that all the time. He would frequently play a phrase eight bars long or more. That sometimes caused some confusion with other people in the band. To further complicate things, our bass player frequently would not play the root note on the changes. I guess everyone looks at things differently. When I saw your sheet music, the first thing I recognized was the 1,5,4, chord progression which resolved back to the 1. That probably is the guitar player's perspective. Also, as those were major triads my expectation for the melody line or vocal line would be notes from the chords especially given the context of the music. The chord progression is the major function that does the resolution at the end and having a note that is a note in the chord at the changes is the only thing that would sound "right" to my ear. A test of that idea is simple enough. Play any note and then play a c major and listen to how it sounds. Play any note and sustain a C chord with that note. Obviously, any note can be played and may sound right if played as a passing tone. Any note that is not a note in the chord to some degree sounds discordant. For me in general, the note choice is controlled by the style of music and the note duration or to add discordance. What you choose to do in Here I Am to Worship is pretty much exactly what I would expect to hear. Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #727055 08/08/22 08:49 AM Songwriting
Joined: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,591 Central Ohio E edshaw Expert
edshaw Expert E Joined: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,591 Central Ohio	Thanks, Billy. Maybe the bass player was staying out of the way! Yeah, my final step after having everything else laid, tuned, and timed, involves the process of playing along with the backing track on the recorder and an eraser on the music stand. That's when the simplification occurs, with notes that sounded right at the time get the ol' boot. One thing I have realized over time is to nail that #1 note on the changes. People have this idea that C scale contains all the notes we would ever need for songs in the key of C. While that may be true, when the change shifts to G strum, I'm here to bang a G. Some of that goes back to playing with howling vocalists, you know, they who prioritize feeling over wave frequency. Today's P&W performers get away with a lot, in the interest of singing their hearts out Incidentally, isn't the "feeling" of a chord something we associate with classical composers, that and classical jazz? Last edited by edshaw; 08/08/22 08:59 AM. Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use) https://www.Rumble.com/edshaw Biab for WIN 2020 -- Win 10 64bit -- Reaper/Audacity Zoom R-16 -- Tascam DP-03-SD -- SoundTap -- Crescendo --

Re: How do melody notes typically resolve to chords? Planobilly #727058 08/08/22 09:16 AM Songwriting
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,729 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,729 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	In general, I like to have someone play the root note or the full chord at the chord change. In years past, that was often done by the bass player. In many cases, I like the drummer to roll up to the changes. All this lets everyone know where we are at in the song. I base most of my thinking on music played by a five-piece band playing pretty mainstream songs. Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

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