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Really GREAT DAW software is available at no cost! No it’s not. Yes, it is!  One of the examples you gave is even free. Uhhh... Earth to JohnJohnJohn, whoever the hell you are, none of the ones I mentioned are free. What, do you mean the "Lite" versions given away with hardware? Oh dear… BUT i challenge ANYONE to show me another daw that has the features and agility of reaper, There you go again. You just don't know how wrong you are. When pros are under client deadlines, support boards and chat rooms aren't good enough and nothing you say changes that. When Time spent=$$$ wasted, we need answers and sometimes engineering solutions ASAP. That's why we pay what we do. For us, it's a business. I have no problem with Reaper. Again, it's pretty good cheapware but that low price does come at a cost.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Uhhh... Earth to JohnJohnJohn, whoever the hell you are, none of the ones I mentioned are free. Well, you're wrong! But I'll let you figure out which one it is. A pro like you should be able to figure it out pretty quickly! 
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It seems funny to me that here we are in the PGMusic forum and all you guys want to talk about is other products.
I own Studio 1 Professional and Logix Pro X. I've owned and used in the past Abelton live, Cakewalk, CubeBase, Sonar, Reason and I have a Home Studio. I've played music since junior high school and I'll be 70 this year, guitar, keys, trumpet and harmonica. I have enough equipment to backline a whole band and then some and I hosted a open Jams at my 2.5 acer ranch every Friday night for 10+ years. sometimes as many as 70 to 100 people showing up. Some of my family members have been nominated for 6 Grammys. I may be a newbie to this forum but not to music so I feel I am qualified to speak on this.
I don't play professional and I don't want too. I love music and I still want to play but I simply can't like I use too. A DAW DOES NOT MAKE MUSIC. That is where BIAB comes in. I've owned BIAB since the early 2000's and have updated many times. I now have over 7000 styles to choose from, most with real musicians playing real instruments. Do you realize what it cost to higher one session player for a project? Let alone a whole band. Well I have over 300 of the best in the business sessions musicians at my beckon call. They don't come in late, get tired, get drunk or talk back. They play what ever progression I want them to and when ever I want them too not to mention royalty free.
Do you know what it takes to come up with 50 new features each and every year? I do, I have been developing software for a company called AllMasterSoftware for 25years now. I have to tell you the folks at PG Music have done a superb job. They have been developing AI software even before it was a thing.
I know that the UI is out dated, when you have been developing a piece of software as long as PG Music has with BIAB it is a big undertaking to rebuild a UI as complex as BIAB.
I love trying to tweak BIAB to come up with some interesting music. I don't think it will ever be a traditional DAW but that doesn't mean we can't hope for some features that a traditional DAW may have. After all why learn another piece of software if you can accomplish what you want to in one.
My three cents.
PShorty
Last edited by PShorty; 09/13/22 08:06 PM.
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if you read my post 'what do BIAB and RB do differently' in this forum i think you'll see why people use a DAW when they have BIAB
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Hello everyone!
I enjoyed reading this thread and want to chime in, even if I am no native speaker. I have been using PG Music Products since 1995 and still love using PTW 3.5e on Win XP, PTW 8.0d on Win 10 and BiaB 2005 on Win XP. I don't like PTW 2018, to my mind it lacks too much features these days.
I start recording a new idea in BiaB, adding backing tracks and laying down a rough midi file. I prefer the notation edit mode in the staff window over any matrix editor.
Then I export to PTW 8.0d which I enhanced with VST-Host "Xlutop Chainer" for using VST (Synths, FX, TapeIt). This combination is a very powerful DAW to my mind, I am using Midi data excessively for automation and mixing.
Greetings, Michael
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Look at my signature and you may notice my signature includes the software DAW Cakewalk by Bandlab, a Zoom MRS-8 hardware DAW and Band-in-a-Box. While I most do not use all these tools on every song project I find the project defines which tool has the features I need to efficiently perform different tasks. Another thread in this Beginners forum section, +++ Can't Hear Instrument Plugin While Recording +++, highlights a major difference between recording in Band-in-a-Box versus in an audio editor, hardware or software DAW. The difference is you can hear what you're recording while you are recording in a most audio editors or a DAW while in Band-in-a-Box you can't hear what is recorded until playback. Why do I bring that up here? Because the audio editor or DAW is the better solution when that feature is required regardless of the skill and knowledge level of the person asking the question. Listening to what you record while you are recording is such a primal feature of most audio editors and DAWs that it is almost natural to assume the feature is embedded in all audio programs. However it is not a Band-in-a-Box feature. To perform the task in Band-in-a-Box requires workarounds and quickly becomes complicated. Now, imagine IF PG Music adds a listen while you record feature. Imagine a new user asks in the forum or one of the Facebook groups how to use the listen to the track while recording feature. I would almost bet that even though a DAW is not mentioned that multiple people would respond, "Take it to a DAW"! I'm reasonably sure that would happen even when a new user hasn't provided much information about their audio production skills or knowledge. Newcomers may, or may not, have audio production experience which helps in understanding DAWs, signal chains, effects and recording techniques. They may, or may not, have live sound experience which helps in understanding how a mixer works. They may, or may not, know music theory or notation. What we do know they have is an interest in music and have expressed a desire to know more about Band-in-a-Box. I want to help these people understand Band-in-a-Box features and help them to utilize these features as much as they desire. If they ask about Band-in-Box my response will be about Band-in-a-Box. When the question is open ended and BiaB is not the best tool I state why another tool works better. The Band-in-a-Box Audio Editor, Utility Tracks, Microchords and Playable RealTracks have greatly enhanced how things can be done in Band-in-a-Box. A DAW will almost always be the best answer for those with prior DAW experience but it may not be for the person asking the question. But I hope the "take it to a DAW" response will not continue to be so automatic when the question is about Band-in-a-Box. I hope respondents will take the time to investigate and become familiar enough with the Band-in-a-Box enhancements to promote the enhancements when appropriate. For example, the Band-in-a-Box Audio Editor cut and paste features are as simple to use as the cut and paste features in most DAWs and standalone audio editors. But only if you are familiar enough with the steps-to-perform-the-task in Band-in-a-Box as you are with performing the same steps in your DAW. You likely will not change your workflow to use the cut and paste features in Band-in-a-Box because of your familiarity and experience using cut and paste inside your DAW. But for someone with no cut and paste experience that owns Band-in-a-Box why tell them to take it to a DAW? This has been an interesting and enlightening discussion with some provoking thoughts expressed. I'm glad I asked the question. I hope everyone responding or reading feel the same.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Jim, with those closing remarks you can now mark this thread "RESOLVED" 
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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That was perfect Jim.
I'm glad that you did ask that question.
The bottom line IMHO is that there are many different ways to use BiaB so use the workflow that works for you but don't criticize someone who doesn't use your workflow.
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Jim, with those closing remarks you can now mark this thread "RESOLVED" +1
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Resolved
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Rayc.
re you said…'I don't see you adopting any new suggestions about mixes etc'
if your commenting on users posted songs asking for comments...…
imho from my experience i feel this is the purview and expertise of pro mastering engineers. which i am not.
Well, you're consistent & reliable. You consistently misread, fail to comprehend or miss the point Added to that you reliably back yourself to the exclusion of anything that doesn't reinforce your position. Onya.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Rayc.
this thread is resolved, however your comment to me compels me to defend myself as follows…
1..per forum rules it's my understanding these forums are for discussion of pg products and gear in general in a friendly cordial fashion.
2..further it's my understanding these forums also are for users trying to help existing and new users (which ive done many many times over the years here.)
further…
3..according to forum rules it is my understanding these forums are not for analysis or comment on another users character traits or personality.
Ray we all are different with many differing opinions on topics. and thats fine.
i will not be replying to you further as I find your personal comments concerning,
thank you.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 09/17/22 04:15 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Ah, the easy way out.
RESOLVED implies a solution to a problem, or answer to a question, has been found to the O.P.'s satisfaction.
You may infer otherwise but that is a matter of your own reading, comprehension and focus.
RESOLVED may be used otherwise - to close a topic perhaps - but that isn't a logical nor functional use.
Cordial doesn't cover endless, tedious regurgitation.
My comments may be a cause for concern. I can & will accept that.
I have, however, tried to help you understand.
PLEASE click the ignore button and allow me to recede into your past: further even.
For my part I usually ignore your posts but when I see someone expressing their frustration with your posts I do take a peek. I am always happy to read new, interesting, entertaining or education posts & respond.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Why Use A DAW When There Is Band-in-a-Box?
Why drive or ride in a car when there are bicycles?
Seriously!?
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I think you didn't read the original post.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
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Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
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These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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