Creating user dictated arpeggios in biab (and realband).
maybe this exists in the world of music production software, but i havent found it.
1..some background to the wish. for many weeks ive been working on a difficult new song project in biab and rb. and one important aspect is the intro which i'm hoping…lol.. is a 'hooky' arpeggio 'custom' rock intro. so I got to thinking…
2..wouldnt it be 'nifty' if there were a feature in biab (and rb) to create user dictated arpeggios from rt's....eg... the user inputs one chord or several chords and the tempo and 2/4//3/4//4/4 info (or biab gets this info from the chord sheet) etc etc BUT USER DICTATES THE NEEDED NOTES IN THE ARPEGGIO as an option so everything is under user control. yes i KNOW there are ways to do it currently BUT i find them 'fiddly".. eg i could access a arp real trak and generate some bars …but if its not the needed notes i want i have to move around the notes i want and edit the result of the generation. see what i mean ??
in summary i want to dictate the notes to be genned rather than biab or rb. yes i 'know' i could use piano roll to dictate the notes…but its kinda 'fiddly' with midi . and its not an rt.
what i would 'really like' , (as in this case i'm trying to simulate a arp i did once using electric guitar as a song intro' ) is to record or even sing onto a audio trak the arp notes and then be able to have a rt take over after ive made sure the notes 'fit' the trak grid.
maybe i'm being a 'silly ninny' but i would find such a AI arp creation feature dictated by the user..in biab and rb very useful. yes i know its a big 'ask'...but as my granny used to say 'those who dont ask dont get'..lol.
if i missed something available just 'yap at me'...lol.
best.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/11/2205:49 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
Hey om, I think this is a great idea, but more is needed than just the notes to define an arpeggio . . . a pattern is also needed. And there are dozens of possible patterns from very simple to very complex. Perhaps the user would specify the instrument/Realrack and the notes (or a note) and BiaB would provide a menu of patterns for the user to select from? Then, as elsewhere in the program, the user could audition the resulting arpeggio and accept it or decline it.
A built-in arpeggiator would be great . . . thanks for requesting.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
wonderfull idea mate. kudos. love the pattern idea.
best
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
wonderfull idea mate. kudos. love the pattern idea.
om, the credit here is entirely yours. You came up with a great idea to expand BiaB. Thinking a little more about this, it's not dozens of possible patterns but thousands or more.
It seems to me that a full featured arpeggiator would somehow allow the user to specify something about the pattern such as the prevalence of whole notes, half notes, quarter notes, etc. Ditto for the rests. Or even better, some kind of user interface that would allow you to design your own arpeggio.
Perhaps someone can comment on how this might be programmed. I'm about at the limit of my music knowledge.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Another vote of support for the Arpeggiator. There would be quite a few users who might get some advantage from such a feature.
+1
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
in the interim ive found a bit of a solution but frankly its a tad 'fiddly'.
1..i auditioned single note rt's (only a few) in the rt picker search then genned. 2..then via audio editing and pitch shifting i managed to create a custom arp. that fits the song.
i'm gonna experiment further with more rt's seeing if i can isolate single notes. it aint easy lol.
best to all.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
in the interim ive found a bit of a solution but frankly its a tad 'fiddly'.
1..i auditioned single note rt's (only a few) in the rt picker search then genned. 2..then via audio editing and pitch shifting i managed to create a custom arp. that fits the song.
i'm gonna experiment further with more rt's seeing if i can isolate single notes. it aint easy lol.
best to all.
om
Not to interfere with your actual 'wish', but in consideration of this current work around above, another two step process is to edit some midi and generate playable RealTracks that should yield the same results but with more control and articulation. You should be able to get even better results using Arpeggiator plug-ins in conjunction with Playable RealTracks.
As for the wish request, plus one from me. It would be a useful tool.
Hmm. Interesting, but... Here is a thought. While some arpeggiators are great, I find them limiting unless you program them deeply by not only "hit notes" at specific time, but automate their sound / FX envelopes. It would require quite a bit of programming to make it sound right. There are some powerful third party plugins that you can make perform with BIAB arrangement (within BIAB).
Here is an alternative idea, which in my opinion has to come first. It is somewhat within the line of pattern / arpeggio world. There are great hundreds (or thousands?) of BIAB MIDI styles. It is possible, but very awkward of extracting individual MIDI stems out of these styles. If it was a straight forward "easy" process, users would have access to a huge library of editable midi patterns that can be selectable within the mixer and assigned to any instrument.
This way the workflow could be similar to picking RTs. Ideally, it can work like this: You would preview and assign midi line to a synth of your choice right from the picker and when you click open (or generate) from the picker, it will place that midi line on a separate track, including the synth you chose in the picker. And of course it should follow all the chord changes and "Settings at the bar"
Main benefit of this approach is that enormous library of patterns (lines within Midi styles) already exist in BIAB and they are more will feel more "natural" than pattern maker, because many of these were played by humans. Also being a MIDI you can edit it with precision.
P.S. If this is done right, a MIDI pack(s) can be made specifically for arpeggios for some modern stuff. Similar to loop packs, but far more flexible.
thanks for everyones great suggestions and comments.
very appreciated.
i know its a tough ask of pg.
rather than using midi i was hoping a wish solution where one defined the notes in the arp and then 'badda bing' start testing real audio real traks against the user defined notes rather than a midi approach. cos if i can isolate single notes of audio rt's all sorts of possibilities open up. (sorta like in a studio where the session musician is asked to play certain arps via a music score sheet or whatever.)
thus using the user arp template (or thumpers pattern concept) a audio arp is created.
in the interim i managed to get the arp i wanted yesterday. using a midi keyboard. its an old trik ive used in the past…
1..slow down bed traks by 50 % then this allows user to.. 2..precisely enter midi notes using midi kbd slowly and more carefully than when things might be whizzing along in a faster tempo song.
yes its 'fiddly' doing the above method. but i got what i wanted after a bit of midi editing.
best to all.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
I used to do quite a lot of requirements capture ... finding out in some detail what the client really wanted, not just what they thought they wanted, and the difference can be profound.
In many such meetings, at the end after the wrap-up when there's no pressure for anything, I would usually ask "If you didn't have to worry about budgets or physics or anything like that, what would you like to be able to do with this?". Now they could let their crazy dreams unleash.
Often they were right and what they'd like probably was impossible, at least with the technology of the time. But it was also surprising how often I could answer "actually, we can do that." or "We can't do that, but we can do this".
IMHO, one can always ask. Just don't get too upset if the answer is negative.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
I used to do quite a lot of requirements capture ... finding out in some detail what the client really wanted, not just what they thought they wanted, and the difference can be profound
+1 I would guess the developers here would do the same thing. They're aware of the desire for a built-in arpeggiator and hopefully they are aware of the arpeggiators that exist elsewhere. They also know how best to bring forth such capability in a way that leverages the other features in BiaB so that 1+1=5.
If this is taken on, I'm confident that workflow, ease of use and maximun feature considerations will be design-drivers.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
You can do all that with the RapidCompser VST inside Biab RB. You can use the playable realtracks sfz or use your own VST making use of keyswitch articulations in a fingerpicking pattern, arpeggio pattern or a strum pattern that can be saved into the library and dragged in over any progression anywhere when needed.
Thanks for the good suggestions. Support for arpeggiator plugins has been added in BiaB 2023 (function to write a chord track added, constrained to the desired note range, accessed from the tracks menu.
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