|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,015
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,015 |
The Wired magazine online portal has a nice +++ ARTICLE +++ explaining what 32 bit floating point audio is as well as why you might, or might not, want to use it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,004
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,004 |
Pretty good article. It's refreshing to read something realistic on the subject instead of the marketing and fanboy crap that accompanies every piece of gear that can handle it.
I've been doing 32 bit float a long time now except for Export/Bounce to Disk. Clients want to see 24 bit.
The only problem I've had is that Adobe Premiere Elements 2022 does not like 32 bit audio. Interestingly, PE 2021 handles it fine. The workarounds are obvious, use 24 bit or 2021 which works fine on my Intel Mac over Monterey 12.4.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,646
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,646 |
The weakest links in the chain with floating-point like this are the pre-amps+ADC at the front and the DAC+PA+Speakers at the back, and the article glosses over that a bit.. Both of those still need attention to getting the levels sensible and getting the signal into its initial digital format (invariably, I think, non-floating). A quick look at Cirrus and Burr Brown ADCs shows none better that 127dB SNR. Even achieving that with a mic pre-amp as well is a real challenge (e.g., Focusrite show ~110dB dynamic range on their 18i20). It's possible to do better if money is no object. So whether integer, fixed point, or floating point, one definitely still needs to set the front-end gain/level sensibly. Once into the digital domain and converted to floating point, one can thenceforth essentially ignore signal levels and gain, right up to the point where she signal goes back to non-floating-point, or to analogue at the amplifiers/speakers. The significant-digits part of 32bit floating-point is 24-bits, so exactly the same resolution/precision as 24-bit integer data, but it adds also an 8-bit exponent (10^+/-127), which is huge for audio purposes. If one changes the level many times, by arbitrary amounts, the signal will eventually degrade, due to rounding errors in the calculations, but in practice it's by such a small amount that it's likely irrelevant. I'm not confident of the maths here, but I suspect that would be around 32,000 manipulations to degrade the signal to the equivalent of 16-bit CD quality. I can live with that 
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,004
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,004 |
The weakest links in the chain with floating-point like this are the pre-amps+ADC at the front and the DAC+PA+Speakers at the back, and the article glosses over that a bit.. Both of those still need attention to getting the levels sensible and getting the signal into its initial digital format (invariably, I think, non-floating). A quick look at Cirrus and Burr Brown ADCs shows none better that 127dB SNR. Even achieving that with a mic pre-amp as well is a real challenge (e.g., Focusrite show ~110dB dynamic range on their 18i20). It's possible to do better if money is no object. So whether integer, fixed point, or floating point, one definitely still needs to set the front-end gain/level sensibly. Once into the digital domain and converted to floating point, one can thenceforth essentially ignore signal levels and gain, right up to the point where she signal goes back to non-floating-point, or to analogue at the amplifiers/speakers. The significant-digits part of 32bit floating-point is 24-bits, so exactly the same resolution/precision as 24-bit integer data, but it adds also an 8-bit exponent (10^+/-127), which is huge for audio purposes. If one changes the level many times, by arbitrary amounts, the signal will eventually degrade, due to rounding errors in the calculations, but in practice it's by such a small amount that it's likely irrelevant. I'm not confident of the maths here, but I suspect that would be around 32,000 manipulations to degrade the signal to the equivalent of 16-bit CD quality. I can live with that I'm expecting the next generation of inexpensive interfaces to use a chip that supports a 384MHz sampling rate with 32bit float. Although such units exist already (some with 64 bit float), they're pretty expensive. When that happens, just watch: 32 bit float will be sold to us as the only thing we can use. As you've pointed out, it depends. The current inexpensive chip is 192/24 (aka Gen 3 since so many are using it in their 3rd generation units) and found in 3 dozen or more current interfaces. The eight I/O version with two 'phone amps costs $6.73 ea with a minimum quantity of 1,000. The 4th Gen doesn't have to be that inexpensive—if it can be delivered under $20 per, that should suffice. Going 32 bit float in my DAW increased my per-track headroom noticeably but I'm putting together projects with 50-100+ tracks of vocals recorded in home studios. I need all the help I can get. Not doing 64 bit float, however, though I could—even Logic Pro X supports that. Certainly don't need anything greater than 24 bit bwav when I bounce.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,646
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,646 |
I'm presuming the 384MHz was a typo for 384kHz.
$20 I presume is the BoM cost of the ADC and is probably OK ... $100 of the list price?
A question, though, has to be whether we really need it. 384kHz sampling rate is good, though the data rate doesn't really need to be that high; but 64bit is probably totally pointless. I think that's a resolution way beyond what physics will allow. It's a huge amount of data and for what purpose?
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,004
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,004 |
I'm presuming the 384MHz was a typo for 384kHz.
$20 I presume is the BoM cost of the ADC and is probably OK ... $100 of the list price?
A question, though, has to be whether we really need it. 384kHz sampling rate is good, though the data rate doesn't really need to be that high; but 64bit is probably totally pointless. I think that's a resolution way beyond what physics will allow. It's a huge amount of data and for what purpose? Thee is no list price when the minimum quantity of the chip is 1,000. Based on the current $6.73 of the one being used now, I expect the initial run to be under $20 when introduced and $10–12 within a year. As for 64 bit float being excessive, I’ll let you argue with ProTools users who think it’s important. I stay away from those conversations.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,646
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,646 |
There is no list price when the minimum quantity of the chip is 1,000. Maybe a slightly crossed line ... I meant a $20 chip means around $100-worth of the final product's list price. ... 64 bit float ... I stay away from those conversations. Very sensible. I think it's in the same territory directional cables. :-)
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 878
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 878 |
I just started using a zoom f3 for some live recording. I captures in 32bit float.
Kind of weird not setting any volume levels.
I've only recorded some test stuff at the house here but it seems to work.
It also looks like I need the latest version of Logic 10.7.5.1 to support it natively
Could be very exciting for live recording.
biab2025(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS (Latest)
Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro (latest or pretty close)
Heddon Super Spook XT (Mullet)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,646
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,646 |
Kind of weird not setting any volume levels. I wondered how they were able to do that as the pre-amps themselves presumably are not floating point (that seems feasible but unlikely). It has a pretty good noise floor and good dynamic range, which would cover most circumstances OK, but not all circumstances. Do they soft-switch a pad in the preamp? Then I saw the clue ... line input has an option of phantom power. OK, so it actually has a manually applied pad loosely disguised as line-input. Both inputs are described as having input impedance "3k or greater", which tends to support that ... line input is more conventionally 10k. Neat thinking on their part. It isn't so long ago that 127dB was fairly exceptional. It's becoming common. I wonder if it switches in that line-level pad for itself if it sees an overload.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 106
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 106 |
Just out of interest my sound card is the sound blaster AE-9. The AE-9 info states Ultimate 32-bit / 384 kHz PCI-e Sound Card and DAC with Xamp Discrete Headphone Bi-Amp and Audio Control Module.
Seems ok for my hearing aid needed ears
Keith
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
PowerTracks Pro 2026 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks 2026 is here—bringing powerful new enhancements designed to make your production workflow faster, smoother, and more intuitive than ever.
The enhanced Mixer now shows Track Type and Instrument icons for instant track recognition, while a new grid option simplifies editing views. Non-floating windows adopt a modern title bar style, replacing the legacy blue bar.
The Master Volume is now applied at the end of the audio chain for consistent levels and full-signal master effects.
Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
Get started today—first-time packages start at just $49.
Already using PowerTracks Pro Audio? Upgrade for as little as $29 and enjoy the latest improvements!
Order now!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,086
Posts799,999
Members40,031
| |
Most Online44,367
Mar 4th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean