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RealBand
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Joined: Jun 2009
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OP
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,110 |
I can understand wishing for new features and it taking so long, been through years n years n years of that with RB  I remember asking for solo buttons for RealBand https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=19003&Number=122728&page=all and the pic showed a floating mixer 6 years before it was added to Biab. Volume automation for non destructive volume editing (like that's just now been added to Biab). The one that took the longest was sending VstTimeInfo to the virtual instrument like EZDrummer/Keys to sync playback that took like 10 years. After all that I gave up on RB as I could not use it in a professional environment working with artist to create tracks for their songs was too stressful and time consuming. The main issue why it's not popular is the generate time, if it was as quick or quicker than Biab it would be more popular thus having more development time spent on it, but now Biab is being made more like a DAW simply because of the generate time that users like. They don't like going back n forth to their DAW and would rather do it all in one app. Jeff spent a lot of time on RB but now I think he is maybe working on Biab mostly. Most users would be creating their song up quickly in Biab then off to their smooth non destructive editing DAW. I can think of so many things to make RB better like non destructive editing and instant generate and playback (even quicker than Biab) from RT RD source files using internal code rather than getting bbw2 in the background to generate tracks into RAM then render down to wav and put them in the RB temp folder. No one has spent more time pushing for and wanting RB to be better, but it's just not practical. I have spent 13 years digging deep into it all and see how it all works and the best example is the Biab Track Injector for Reaper . This is the way it all needs to work in this day n age. This way allows for a Live Arranger version of Biab maybe using the Plugin Standalone. That's why I'm still here even though I have given up many times stupid me gets back in the ring for another swing as I would like to see it all through and become a reality because of all the time and effort spent on it. If this was done to RB back in 2008 it would be the leading one now and I would not even be here !, but that horse has bolted. RealBand will still be here for a while with a little tweak added now and then but the future would have to be in the BBPlugin/Standalone as it's a fresh start and looks professional but just needs the internal generate code rather than the slow asss bbw4 route. I can see the Plugin Standalone becoming the new Biab DAW down the track. Kristal Audio Engine (Studio One) doing non destructive editing back in 2004 ! it just references the WAVE, AIFF, FLAC, OGG Vorbis without creating new wav files. See it has solo mute buttons. Download Kristal AE Reaper also on it's release back in 2006.  This is Biab 2007 with Kristal 2004, look where Studio One is now compared to Biab & RealBand. 
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 3,588
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 3,588 |
MC/pipe ?
i wanna go surfing/scuba in aussie instead of the net.
someone i know just went to aussie for a few months.. lucky duck.
re rb..as always good points. how i get//got round the regens was...when 'fleshing out a song arrange' n' 'structure' etc i would work in the midi domain cos i like the way rb handles midi with a ton of midi features.
only when ive finished getting the song 'tickety boo' do i then gen. saves lots of disc space too with small *SEQ's'. cant have everything..every other daw i try doesnt have some of rb's features..particularly the auto trak genning.
frankly i feel rb could have been the daw world leader years ago with a few more features that ive asked for over the years in the wish lists.
let me say also i bet some 'newbies' dismiss rb without realising how nifty some of its deep features are.
eg i still LOVE the tricks i can do in rb BARS VIEW...
for moving bits of midi and audio around..and have begged pg to add more functionately to it...as i'm sure your aware ?
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/26/22 04:05 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,623
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Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,623 |
i wanna go surfing/scuba in aussie instead of the net. With the dog's breakfast the endless stream of dodgy governments are making of things in the UK, especially wrt engineering, I often wish I'd taken up the "ten pound pom" offer all those years ago. I think they'll not want me now I'm 70, even though I'm still doing electronics and software engineering.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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RealBand
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,110
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OP
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,110 |
Been watching Rick Stein's Cornwall I love it, he was swimming there and he said no sharks and no jelly fish ! Love Doc Martin down in Port Isaac in Cornwall.
With RB you can't chain midi plugins, in Reaper what it can't do you can make it do with scripts.
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RealBand
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,142
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,142 |
it all depends on what you are used to. i learnt BIAB from floppies and then used PT to finish midi only backing tracks. in those days live we playted with midi files on a yamaha file player.
now its mp3s - created in RB. basic tracks worked out in BIAB, taken over to RB, polished, edited, solos added etc. generation time is not an issue - takes seconds on my pc. and maybe if i knew them, other DAWs would be slicker and faster. but I know RB. it does everything i want and recent additions like multiriffs etc are great. ok so i can't use VST3s and chain vst plugins but kv elements plugs that gap.
BIAB is an accompaniment program. that's what i use it for and polish things in RB which is much more transparent - the two programs have always worked together really well. maybe if i wanted something more than backing tracks i'd find RB limited. but i don't. i can't help thinking BIAB is for musicians like me not writers of symphonies.
i don't need any more 'features'. i'll upgrade BIAB to get more RealTracks but i think this is the last year i'll upgrade.
i'm trying to recreate the sound of bands i played in in real life - bass, keyboards and drums with added strings and horns when needed. there must be thousands of BIAB and RB users like me. had i started on something else it would be different but i learnt BIAB and then PT now RB. what would be the point of learning another DAW?
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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 269
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 269 |
Just read your post and felt like you were talking about me.
Your experience and use of BIAB/PT/RB is very similar to my own and I suspect many others who are happy to work at this level.
Vintage
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,457
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,457 |
... The one that took the longest was sending VstTimeInfo to the virtual instrument like EZDrummer/Keys to sync playback that took like 10 years. ... I remember that and I still laugh about it. Somehow the message wasn't getting through to the programmer, and once it did, he said 'yeah, I can add that no problem, didn't know about it' and then boom, there was a free update within days .. not even part of the annual '50 new features'. It made me realize that sometimes getting the message to the exact person is as important as the message itself.
Last edited by rharv; 12/01/22 12:44 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,623
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,623 |
It made me realize that sometimes getting the message to the exact person is as important as the message itself. Definitely true. There are times when requests for things stall in the customer-facing areas of companies, sometimes because of the perceived cost or complexity of doing them, when the cost and complexity may be negligible. The challenge is to sensibly manage "mission creep". Some years ago on a project we spent several person-weeks disabling a feature because marketing "definitely do not want that feature". After the project was released they then said "right, you can start working on that feature now if you like". I had originally tried to tell them the feature already existed, but I presume they didn't believe me. Sigh.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,457
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,457 |
We call it Scope Creep here, and it is one of my biggest challenges running software projects.
Just 10 minutes ago (which is after hours here on a weekend) I had to explain to a client that they needed to have the actual people that are going to use the software test it, before starting to call me with 'refinements' that they want changed before the actual user ever sees it.
Often enough, this particular client has had us make changes that they later asked us to revert do to user complaints (much like your example) ...
Unfortunately, sometimes, it takes a letting them make a few of these mistakes first (to show them they need to trust your opinion) before you get their buy-in.
Most of the time this ends up saving the client money in the long run .. just telling them (gently) "your opinion doesn't really matter in this case, and we choose to say no", works once they realize you were right before.
Every client is different, but I been there more than once ..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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