20(23) Questions for users n' pg . would appreciate any answers to the following. other users feel free to add your own questions.
1..in biab i can , in style picker, audition a style using my own created chord arrange. but i cant in rb. does rb do this now in 2023 ? cos it would make things easier in rb with rb's 48 traks. 2..does anyone use the new m2 ssd's to install biab/rb onto ? if so did you notice any shorter rt generation times. reason i ask is…once ive done the chord arrange i dont stick to the rt's only in the particular style, but i might audition a slew of rt's to see what rt's are best for the song. as you can appreciate , when one auditions a slew of rt's, any savings in rt generation times would be good. also as my new pc has m2 installed (love M2 tech) i'm curious if there are time savings to be had//generation time over older ssd tech. 3..i'm assuming in bb that F5 dont work yet for utility traks ?
i'll add other q's as i think of them…but gotta say this upgrade looks mighty nice.
particularly i'm happy that pg continue to develope realband (eg microchords support)..cos i feel with the addition of a few features (eg one being flac recording and playback like reaper so seq's would be smaller) rb would be a world beater daw.
happiness to all.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 12/01/2204:23 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
1. RB StylePicker does not yet have the 'play over Chord Sheet chords' feature
3. "3..i'm assuming in bb that F5 dont work yet for utility traks ?" No. In fact, many 2023 new features push that particular function further back in usefulness. Regarding "all tracks equal" - the new 2023 features and the existing long list of Audio Edit Window's edit features plus the second Audio Editor apply to all 24 tracks coming closer to the 'All tracks equal' concept.
Here's a screen shot of the StylePicker controls in the 2023 RB release:
Charlie. very good of you to respond. thnx for the info.
ive lost count the number of times ive asked pg to implement that feature in rb. maybe us rb users will get it when i'm in the old folks home...sigh.
as rb uses bb in the background i dont know why it cant be implemented in rb. as bb has the feature it means i gotta audition in bb style picker viz my chord sheet n' flip over to rb later on in the song creation process.
no added features i requested over the past few years either eg bars view added wishes...i'm disappointed. the frustrating thing is rb could be the numero uno world daw if they built in just a few more features requested. ive even given up posting wishes in the wishlist...sigh.
thanks again.
have a fantastic year.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 12/02/2206:50 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
"no added features i requested over the past few years either eg bars view added wishes...i'm disappointed. the frustrating thing is rb could be the numero uno world daw if they built in just a few more features requested. ive even given up posting wishes in the wishlist...sigh."
Man I really feel for you, I really do, that sounds just like me years back, hoping and wishing they would just do this and just do that as it could be really great. I even made a site for it www.RealBand.org then had enough and left that's why there are so many avatars of me. I can make up pages and pages of prototypes with graphics like your OldMuso's Bar View for Biab but I can't program Delphi and don't have the source, if I did I would get on it right now and upload it tomorrow, I can only do that with Reaper as all the stress and frustration trying to make RB better caused: "necessity is the mother of all invention" now all the things thought impossible for PG to do I can show now that's it's all entirely possible and doable as I can do it in Reaper. This years BB has implemented so many of these suggestion, it's getting there but a year each time is too long for me to wait these days. With Reaper I can add features and functions the same day. Was really looking for the BBPlugin to have play direct this release to give a profound change in speed rather than cosmetics after all the years spent posting the info. The way apple is now being exposed now like I said would happen might cause the evil apple to go down the drain then PG could go back to a bi-annual Win release and we would have Tesla's PiPhone.
apologies for the occasional mini frustration..i just dont see the point of having user suggestions/wishlists forums if such are not addressed. i wouldnt even mind if a response to the user were made along the lines 'sorry cant implement in the rb style picker play with chord sheet like bb cos its difficult to implement.….at the technical level..'. so people would know exactly where they stood. this is what we would do with our end users when i was with a tek company once and thus we found resulted in a understanding user base.
i only wish pg to prosper. but it seems things take a looong time.
sadly i dont think any of my wishes for not just rb but also bb have ever been implemented. oddly enough on the few occasions on the telephone with pg support i get a response of 'great ideas , will pass it on'...sigh. whereas when i got into reaps as soon as it came out years ago and i and lots of early adopters were i'm sure bombarding the reaps dev's with requests … we saw rapid progress. i'm kinda laughing now cos as an early reaps adopter i was villified by many fellow musos when i said 'this daw is gonna be huge'. rb has so many great features if one is willing to 'delve'..its sad imho. rb TOO could be huge.
as ive said before i have the utmost respect for your graphics skills in taking my past wishes and creating grrreat graphics..eg new bars view not just for rb but also bb which doesnt have such a view.
i hope 2023 is fantastic for you mate. have a merry xmas… also to pg and all users.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 12/02/2201:34 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
MCity. an addendum....re user beta testers of pg releases.
overnight i was thinking who are the 'beta testers' ? and why arent they pointing out little things in realband like not being able to audition a style picker style using the user chord sheet, like in bb ? loading the style demo is no help to me. so i have to remain in biab to audition styles with my chord sheet in stylepicker. just more work…sigh.
do the beta testers mainly concentrate on biab features ? rather than rb ? have you been a beta tester ? if you have what are the parameters of a beta tester ?
another aspect is why havent beta testers (seeing the difficulty new users with multi input sound usb devices have setting up rb ) point this out ?
lets talk bout notation also…
one of my weakest skills is notation. in summary i'm useless at notation…… like many rockers..lol.
but THEN looking at notation in pg products it seems there are a host of features… to this simple mind anyway…SOOO… why do notation pros feel the need to use/buy a separate notation program ? what is missing from biab and rb ? and thus why arent beta testers pointing out any notation deficiencies. if i were a pro at notation and if i were a beta tester i would make suggestions so users arent compelled to use another program for notation and also thus save the user bucks//quids//whatever.. (frankly i respect people highly who can just use manuscript paper (old skool)...and create a symphony for orchestra.)
in summary what testing parameters are biab and rb beta testers given when testing biab and rb ? cos just one example it amazes me that beta testers would miss a most obvious basic need in rb to audition with ones chord sheet in stylepicker rather be allowed only to load a demo. isnt this need obvious ??
merry xmas.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 12/03/2204:37 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
>ive lost count the number of times ive asked pg to implement that feature in rb. maybe us rb users will get it when i'm in the old folks home...sigh. why arent they pointing out little things in realband like not being able to audition a style picker style using the user chord sheet, like in bb
JustAnOldMuso,
It may seem like a “little thing” to implement the N bar preview in RealBand, but it would actually be a huge amount of work. There isn’t a playback engine inside the stylepicker. The audition files that do get played use windows media player. So we’d need to create a playback engine for the stylepicker, or get RB itself to do it (RB would need to ignore its own tracks, and create new temporary ones). Both are possible, just a huge amount of work for a relatively small feature.
As I expect you know, the N bar preview works with Band-in-a-Box. It’s enhanced in 2023, in that (1) it isn’t fixed at 4 bars, it is settable, and (2) you can set it to happen when double clicking on a style.
Here’s 5 features added that were suggested in the wishlist forum. Many more of the 70 added features came from user suggestions (emailed, via chat support etc.) Thanks to all who make these great suggestions, and we plan on working through the list to add more.
I think its a little sad that Peter Gannon has to come out and defend BIAB and RB when for most of us the functionality is as good as it gets and in fact, over the top for what a lot of us need. elsewhere I've posted that playing live and for recordings I'm trying to recreate the sound of the small bands I've actually played in.
and i realise that some people want to create their own musical magnum opus but BIAB and RB already create the sound i want. live i played guitar and a friend played lead (he is actually a very good guitarist) so we were obviously creating a lot of our own sound. but the bass, drums, keyboard and when needed horns and strings were from BIAB via PT or RB. we had the sound of a complete band. and when there is just me for recording i get all the sounds i want.
and of course the added advantage is that the drummer does not go off with strange women at half time and the lead guitarist doesn't fall off the stage having smoked too much dope in the interval. oh and by the way - it was a different lead guitarist not the one i mentioned above!
thanks for taking time to comment. very good of you.
as you can appreciate , over the years ive pointed many people/musos to your products.. like lots of pg users i'm sure. and thus feel a bit daft if one of them gets back to me and says 'why in biab but not rb?'
please allow me to clarify one aspect of the rb request. if its a prob …i dont need loads of rb traks to be played back in rb stylepicker. if it might things easier for your team, maybe just the relevant few rt's in the style in the stylepicker. like in biab.
excuse me if i'm being technically daft but what i'm wrestling with is why biab can create using the user chord sheet, but rb cant in the stylepicker. obviously biab has the code , so i assumed (maybe stupidly) that it would be a simple task of useing same programming code from biab in rb. let me emphasise i'm not asking for anything additional over what biab provides.
let me explain further…when i'm creating a song , i often, , after creating the song chord sheet… i'll try a slew of styles and rt's against my established chord sheet.
so in rb i'm always going to n' fro' in n' out of stylepicker. as i'm going thru say a thousand styles say and rt's etc etc…its a week long process often.
in summary i'm very thorough , and with any song i just dont say that style or few rt's 'will do'. cos with my methods ive had many happy accidents eg discovering a rt from a jazz style might be useful in another genre. actually its lotsa fun playing back a chord sheet ive made for a rock song against a totally different non rock style and seeing what 'sound pictures' are created that might be useful , but in my rock song.
Peter i only comment , cos your products have helped not only moi but sooo many fellow musos…thus i care deeply.
thanks again n' Merry Xmas. i wish you a great successful 2023.
Rusty .
thanks for the info…i didnt know this has been implemented in 2023 now. very good of you to comment.
Merry Xmas n' have a great 2023.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
Muso, you realize that you initiated that request? So not only you are getting arpeggiator right from "the Box" but also an ability to use pretty much anything out here.
You thanked me for pointing it out. But did you thanked Peter for implementing your request? This arpeggiator can actually do a lot of very fun stuff, complementing existing workflow.
The reality is that not all suggestions will be implemented. That's inevitable for a number of reasons.
I'm pleased to see that one of mine is amongst this year's list. I note that OM's "user dictated arpeggios" is there, too. I have yet to get 2023 and try them.
But it does seem a bit perverse that the "with my chords" preview is available in one program and not the others. Clearly there's history to this, but I puzzle somewhat why a function obviously common to several parts of the BiaB/RB suite wasn't built originally with multiple use in mind right from the start in any new package. To not do that is storing up work and heartache for the future. In theory object-oriented languages like Delphi are supposed to make 'things' for reuse easier easier, but my own (limited!) usage of OO languages seems to me sometimes to suggest otherwise. YMMV.
I know from my own, fortunately occasional, experience that sometimes "we should have dealt with this way back in [insert occasion] but it's too hard/late now".
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
The main issue is RealBand is using bbw2 in the background and it does not connect to your audio driver, it just gens up the wavs and puts them in the RealBand temp so it can't really play back the chord preview.
This same method was suggested to create the BBPlugin as it's using bbw4 in the background. This got a BBPlugin started and out there sure it's slower and creates all those wavs. Eventually the code will have to be put directly in RealBand if not at least the BBPlugin.
I see with the latest feature video it has so many things I have suggested recently (as in last year) or from over the years and is working really well so well done PG !
With the Beta there is suggestions there for all these issues but it is such a mad rush testing it is just for bugs and not for better ways of doing things, so if a better way is suggested it takes another year to put it in as I have seen this year. That's why I think there needs to be consultation early before beta testing that could nip things in the bud. It's frustrating for me cause waiting a year each time just wears me out these days. I have said about a continuous beta throughout the year.
Look at Reaper what can be done with scripting !!! I have made so many scripts so Reaper works with Biab/BBPlugin. I only wish OldMuso put me onto Reaper years n years ago as I can't program the PG software to do what is needed so a short bit of time is spent doing it in Reaper then I spend way more time here posting n posting n posting, years n years to get that here.
"do the beta testers mainly concentrate on biab features ? rather than rb ? have you been a beta tester ? if you have what are the parameters of a beta tester ?
another aspect is why havent beta testers (seeing the difficulty new users with multi input sound usb devices have setting up rb ) point this out ?"
"another aspect is why havent beta testers (seeing the difficulty new users with multi input sound usb devices have setting up rb ) point this out ?"
There are just as many posts in the Beta forum as here showing better ways, ideas, improvements. The same development guys read the main forum as the Beta forum. That multi input in RB that was posted years n years ago in the RealBand forum, I think that nag was under the Solidrock avatar
A lot of us here have been Beta "Testers" we are not Beta programmers, what's going on in this forum now just is all Beta release testing, what bugs were not found or fixed in the few days of Beta testing are fixed over the next few months, then it's on to the Mac, if they haven't changed their OS again for the millionth time it will go quickly else it could take many many more months running behind apple to get it to work on there "new" version, where as Win10 will run Win95 apps.
firstly .. i wasnt aware that one of my wishes has been included in 2023. (user arpegs) until Rusty pointed it out to me. thanks very much for that. much appreciated.
secondly … allow me to explain why i often need to navigatae sooo speedily thru the various pickers and styles etc. as follows…
top studios/producers etc have big budgets often to get huge sample libs and use live session musicians etc etc…but like lots of users here who dont have such budgets…in my case , i have to, like a prospector prospecting for gold , prospect in the rt's and styles for 'great sound pictures and sonic gold'.
thus in an important song (rather than a 'rough demo') this often entails going thru' thousands of styles and rt's etc . thus any feature that helps me lessen the time to do this 'prospecting' is of great benefit. in summary as an example IF i just put 'rock' into a picker search , yes this lessens search time , however ive found i miss lots of neat sonic pictures which might make a song even better. thus most times i go thru every single style/rt/supertrak/rd etc. ie a very lengthy process but that ive found often leads to great results.
i hope i make some sense. blame my methods on years ago being told how important 'sound picture' is to a song as well as many other aspects like eg 'hooks and great riffs'. sooo blame my attention to details on my teachers…lol.
finally , allow me to say, i'm well aware of the day to day of a tech company as ive worked for such in the past. (eg the changing sands of OS's and other external factors one has no control over.) this is one reason i highly respect what your company has achieved.
have a merry xmas and a great 2023.
om
MCITY.
thanks for your thoughts. respect . have a merry one.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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