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An extremely good appraisal of the current situation, I think, with a slight disagreement on my part about Baby Boomer opinion. I do think it's the industry's problem more than old-is-good, new-is-bad.

And this is important:
Quote:
Musical revolutions come from the bottom up, not the top down. .... New music always arises in the least expected place, and when the power brokers aren’t even paying attention. It will happen again. It certainly needs to. The decision makers controlling our music institutions have lost the thread. We’re lucky that the music is too powerful for them to kill.


Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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I posted the article a year ago when first published … lots of discussion. I wonder what the past year looks like.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=700357

Bud


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I play 3 days a week in a resort across from the biggest ocean side park in our city and directly on the public beach. It's outdoors under a big canopy with a restaurant and full bar service.

Since we started our duo, decades ago, our target has always been the 50-year-old plus audience. It's a good, solid, dependable audience here in South Florida. It's retirement heaven.

When playing beachside, all ages come in, teenagers, young adults, families with small children, as well as the retirement age folks.

We have a songlist of over 600 tunes https://www.nortonmusic.com/cats/songlist.html

We do play some 21st century songs, but the majority of our music is from 1955 to the 1990s. We have some older "big band era" music that worked with our market years ago, but we hardly ever play them anymore.

We learn what people request, and when something goes over well, we learn more like it.

I'm no longer surprised to see young adults singing along to songs by The Beatles, Elvis, Johnny Cash, Dion, Springsteen, Lionel Richie, Motown artists, Donna Summer, Lou Rawls, Beach Boys, Four Seasons, Jimmy Buffett, k.d. lang, Otis Redding, Janis Joplin, Kansas, Van Morrison, Santana, Bob Seger and so many others.

They like the newer songs too, but I used to be surprised they sing along and know all the words of the older tunes. Now I just enjoy it.

We mix in other genres, Country, Caribbean, Musica Latina, too. Whatever works, whatever they like, mostly music they know by heart.

We keep track of the requests, and I'm always observing what songs work well and which ones don't. Our aim is to give them what they want, and do a better job at that than our competition. It's working, because I am making a living doing music and nothing but music. I enjoy what I'm doing and don't have to do the ultimate sell-out (for me) -- take a day job.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

PS Here is the place we play 3 days a week...







Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
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Looks good Notes, nice place to play

Just been on your website, I guess this page does need updating as no longer correct.

https://www.nortonmusic.com/expanded.html

Last edited by musiclover; 12/17/22 12:52 AM.

Musiclover

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Thanks for sharing this Atlantic article. As someone not plugged-in to this industry but interested in it, it enlightened me to a few things. IMHO, anybody who is trying to make a living from writing fresh, new music with an eye toward being popular should understand everything written in this article.

This, over the years, has summed up my general opinion regarding new music [although there are a few exceptions]:
Quote:
"Some people—especially Baby Boomers—tell me that this decline in the popularity of new music is simply the result of lousy new songs. Music used to be better, or so they say. The old songs had better melodies, more interesting harmonies, and demonstrated genuine musicianship, not just software loops, Auto-Tuned vocals, and regurgitated samples."

An entire book could be written on this one quote . . .

And my "evidence" to support this has been too much lack-luster new music on Austin City Limits. And anybody familiar with past iHeartRadio TV specials? Same non-passionate music there too, imho. These 2 datapoints align nicely with the decreasing interest in the Grammy's as explained in the article.

I say what a crying shame. I'd love to experience new high-quality music, but that seems quite rare these days for a host of reasons (litigation being one).

I'm certainly no music pro by any stretch, but of the time I allocate to music, about 40% is spent writing in BiaB, 10% spent listening to music, 10% studying music and the remaining 40% learning to play "the classics" from the 60's, 70's and 80's on my bass.

To "young" muscians trying to make it in today's stacked-against-you music industry I say don't give up.

Be passionate about your art and persevere.


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Its not that there is a dearth of good music these days, its that you have to go looking for it.

The major labels are so hidebound by the bottom line that they are afraid to take risks any more like they used to. They only want the sure thing and that is exactly why their product is overwhelmingly stale and boring.

Ironically, the tighter they cling to that bottom line, the more they struggle.

One more example of how bean counters ruin everything.


Byron Dickens

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Originally Posted By: musiclover
Looks good Notes, nice place to play

Just been on your website, I guess this page does need updating as no longer correct.

https://www.nortonmusic.com/expanded.html


Thanks MusicLover.

What needs to be updated?

It still works as far as I can tell. Anyone with a version older than 2022 needs it, and people with new versions might also find it useful because it also doubles the resolution (pulses per quarter note) from 120ppm to 240ppm.

Notes ♫


Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
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& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Originally Posted By: Byron Dickens
Its not that there is a dearth of good music these days, its that you have to go looking for it.

The major labels are so hidebound by the bottom line that they are afraid to take risks any more like they used to. They only want the sure thing and that is exactly why their product is overwhelmingly stale and boring.

Ironically, the tighter they cling to that bottom line, the more they struggle.

One more example of how bean counters ruin everything.


Exactly


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Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
Originally Posted By: musiclover
Looks good Notes, nice place to play

Just been on your website, I guess this page does need updating as no longer correct.

https://www.nortonmusic.com/expanded.html


Thanks MusicLover.

What needs to be updated?

It still works as far as I can tell. Anyone with a version older than 2022 needs it, and people with new versions might also find it useful because it also doubles the resolution (pulses per quarter note) from 120ppm to 240ppm.

Notes ♫



Hi Notes,

Well to me anyway if I was a potential buyer of biab and happened to browse to this page on your website, I would come away with the impression that band in a box doesn't support 16 chords per bar. No where does it say that what you refer to only applies to versions older than 2022.

Just thought it a bit strange reading that when I know otherwise.

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The problem with the Grammy's, the Oscars, a lot of movies and new music is not just the product itself, it's certain political leanings they represent.

I just checked for the highest earners in music for 2022 and Jay Z, P Diddy and Kanye are listed right behind Springsteen who's number one. Hard to realize as an old guy that the rappers are getting old themselves. They're biggest hits are 20-30 years old now. Otherwise, there is a lot of very good current music out there but many 70 somethings won't bother to look, they just say new music sucks and a lot of it does but expand your mind and look you'll find some pretty good stuff.

I've had conversations with others my age about this. We forget how much totally forgettable crap was on the radio in the 60's and 70's. What's classic and awesome now is the best that was done then but like now, that represented maybe 10% at the most, of what was on the Billboard top 100 in 1969 for example. Here it is:

Billboard Top 100 1969

Just look at this thing. The Ballad of John and Yoko? Not the Beatles best.
My Cheri Amour by Stevie Wonder? Not close to his best either.

Here's a few groups that reminded me why I had to change the channel whenever their piece of crap song came on. Dyke and the Blazers, Charles Randolph, Candi Stanton, Dickie Goodman and this is just me skipping through this stupid list. Not exactly household names. We forget just how bad commercial radio was back then.

The point is what we all agree is great music from that era is AFTER it's been filtered for 50 years and what we and the young people hear now is the best of the best that has stood the test of time. But look at any Top 100 list for those years and it's mostly garbage.

Just like now.

Bob


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^^^^^^^^^^

Bingo!


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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
..................................

The point is what we all agree is great music from that era is AFTER it's been filtered for 50 years and what we and the young people hear now is the best of the best that has stood the test of time. But look at any Top 100 list for those years and it's mostly garbage.

Just like now.

Bob



Excellent point!


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I reread the responses to my post of this article a year ago and again the responses to this current post. And FWIW my thoughts remain the same.

I could care less about what is on the charts or which songs are award winning ... or the reasons thereof. We listen and produce Americana music. The genre is a huge sub-genre tent and we have no problem finding new (not new to us but newly produced) music on a regular sometimes daily basis.

Yeah, blues, blues rock, folk rock, alt-country and the jazz we like may be old school, retro or whatever. BUT new music in those genres is readily available to us as are zillions of older songs of that ilk that we have not heard.

I've oft said this but via streaming, i.e., access to an estimated 100 million songs, we can at anytime listen to music we love. Apple Music, Spotify and many others curate playlists for you that absolutely nail what you like -- brand new and old. And a simple verbal command to play more or less like that results in a rapid personal shaping of your playlists. Or a simple command confines them to one genre.

Hardly a day goes by that I don't get a fb notification that a favorite artist has a NEW release. Who cares if it charts or what the demographics are of the listeners? I do not intend to disparage in any way those who listen to CD's or radio. I just wanted to mention that there are 77 year old streamers out there! smile

Bud aka old streaming curmudgeon


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Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Otherwise, there is a lot of very good current music out there but many 70 somethings won't bother to look, they just say new music sucks and a lot of it does but expand your mind and look you'll find some pretty good stuff.

OK, I'll have an open mind here and [hopefully] learn something.

For those that think there is a lot of very good current music out there, please provide specific songs released in the last 18 months that can be put in the following categories. Caution: the bar is very high.

1. Lead guitar that rival Carlos Santana, Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Mark Knopfler, David Gilmore and Duane Allman

2. Male vocals that rival Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Glen Campbell, Elvis Presley and Paul Rodgers

3. Female vocals that rival Linda Ronstadt, Oliva Newton John, Gladys Knight, Whitney Houston, Sade, Karen Carpenter, Carly Simon, Christine McVie, Annie Haslam and Suzanne Vega

4. Harmonies that rival CSNY, 3 Dog Night, The Beatles, Mammas and Pappas and America

5. Keyboard players that rival Kieth Emerson, Rick Wakeman, Billy Preston, Steve Winwood, Donald Fagen, Greg Rolie, and Jon Carin

6. Drummers that rival Carl Palmer, John Bonham, Kieth Moon, Stewart Copeland, Phil Collins and Steve Gadd

7. Bass players that rival Sting, Sir Paul McCarney, John Entwistle, John Paul Jones and Jaco Pastorious

Great musicians produce great music and I'm sure I've missed many a great musician and your list of all-time greats may be different. But like I say, the bar is high. Remember . . . the last 18 months smile


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What's odd there Thump is that there was not one word about songwriting. Well written songs impress me WAY more than well performed songs.

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Originally Posted By: eddie1261
What's odd there Thump is that there was not one word about songwriting. Well written songs impress me WAY more than well performed songs.


I have heard it said that Kriss Kristofferson is not considered a great singer, but boy can he write songs!

I saw him a few years ago local here in Derry, over 80 and still going strong, great backing band behind him, one of Merle Haggards band members if my memory serves me correctly, mostly these days it doesn't smile







Musiclover

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Originally Posted By: musiclover
I have heard it said that Kriss Kristofferson is not considered a great singer, but boy can he write songs!


Jesus was a Capricorn...

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Originally Posted By: eddie1261
What's odd there Thump is that there was not one word about songwriting. Well written songs impress me WAY more than well performed songs.

Jim Webb comes immediately to mind, Eddie wink


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For everyone who thinks there is no good modern music being produced that compares to the likes of Led Zeplin, for example, check out Greta Van Fleet. She even gets accused of sounding too much like them.

Like blues? Larkin Poe. Lukas Nelson does not sound like his dad Willie but is a great musician. I could go on.

I don't think it is logical to try to compare the best of the musicians of the past to the musicians of today or any other time for that matter. There is only one Whitney Houston, and no one is really like here, before or now.

Richie Blackmore will forever be the guitar player associated with Deep Purple. Steve Morse replaced him and stayed with the band for twenty-eight years. Steve is a super good guitar player and as good as any of the guitar players thumper mentioned. Guitarist Simon McBride will join the band as a permanent member; time will tell how we will take to him. Steve is staying home to take care of his wife, who is battling cancer.

The fact that Old songs now represent 70 percent of the U.S. music market does not necessarily make a particular old song great or preclude some new songs from being good.

There are modern guitar players who are much more skilled than some of the more popular guitar players of the past.

As a kid, I could have gone into a record shop and recognized many, if not most, of the artists on the records for sale. The modern-day "record store," something called the internet, has millions of records for sale, and there is no way for me to be exposed to even a small fraction of that. So, there is no way for me to know how much excellent new music exists.

Record companies don't have to promote " old songs," so it is less expensive to sell them and more profitable. I can assure you that profit is the only motivational force in corporate America.

Just my 3 cents worth.

Billy


“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
  • 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
  • FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
  • MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
  • Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
  • Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
  • RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
  • SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)

Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!

XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!

All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!

It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.

What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?

XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!

Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!

The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.

The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.

The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.

Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!

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