**ONE BUTTON PUSH TO SEND BIAB TRAKS TO REALBAND** (and maybe vice versa ?)
heres a suggestion (in this age of automation) to make it much easier to send traks in a bb song to realband (rb) (and maybe vice versa ?). (the wish is similar in concept to the ease of sending to bb from the acw with just one button.)
as background i was trying vainly recently to help a fellow user trying to send bb traks >> rb.
as a result (and from my own use of bb n' rb) i was testing various ways of getting bb traks into rb including opening the the bb song file into rb as well as dragging traks from bb to rb ie the bb trak names. in summary i would suggest currently its a tad 'fiddly'.
maybe i missed something currently available (sometimes i'm daft as my wife tells me…lol.) but i DID talk to pg support about the need and i suggested the following SOLUTION…...
haveing given the problem of too many steps for a user to take currently and deep thought..what i feel is needed is a BIG VISIBLE BUTTON in bb….that says something like the following.. SEND ALL TO RB…..thus when a user presses the button the following steps occur automatically without any manual steps/intervention needed from the user.
1..the bb song as it stands is auto saved (just in case…). 2..a new rb project is auto set up. 3..the bb traks are auto sent to individual rb ttraks in the new rb project. THEN… 4..the new rb project with the just sent bb traks (set out on individual traks)is auto saved as project *.SEQ. maybe even get fancy as follows… 5..if the bb song is called "KITTENS ROCK' sgu or mgu then the auto saved rb seq is called KITTENSROCK.SEQ in the same dir as the bb file song resides in.
let me reiterate …all above occurs without user intervention. ie all user needs to do is clik once the honking big button in bb.
after the above steps the user is presented with a rb screen with all traks filled...and a message 'seq saved' to bb dir. ie rb mimics the number of bb traks…eg if bb has 12 traks then so does rb.if bb has only 9 traks so does rb.
now of course , in addition the programmer could get 'fancy shmancy' with other features like…
1..for each trak mimic the bb vol and pan settings and/or midi trak patch settings. 2..auto set up the plug ins in rb same as in bb etc etc.
so in essence the user doesnt have to do anything….just then carry on in rb with all the extra traks rb has. in summary rb mirrors the bb individual trak settings.
now of course to get really fancy some what about going the other way ? ie rb >> bb. but of course bb has fewer traks than rb..especially if rb's trak count is say at some point expanded to 96 traks or more as pc's get more powerfull ?? bit of a poser this idea.
another poser is if a rb project is already displayed on screen. with say x//xx number of traks already filled eg first 24 traks,,thus the user could be asked i guess 'add bb traks starting at rb trak 25' ??
i hope the above makes a modicum of sense ??
a happy new year to all.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/15/2303:09 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
Seems you're trying to send individual tracks from BB to RB using a single button. Maybe the WAV button in the Drag/Drop icon will work for you.
You don't mention if you tried dragging the Master button down to the WAV button - open DAW mode and drag the WAV button onto the RB program behind the DAW BB window.
The drag/drop can be configured to be a master stereo mix or individual tracks.
Charlie. (see ***footnote. yes i'm aware of that feature)
i DID talk to pg support who told me they thought the concept i explained had some merit.
bear in mind your very clued into the deep features of bb/very experienced. but lots arent eg the new user who often doesnt want to read manuals and doesnt want added steps/somewhat hidden features. thus i was trying to come up with a intuitive idea ie just press this honking big button lol.
***footnote. the user i was trying to help had rather clever advanced chord song arrangements and was getting 'anomilies' which i verified. and was tearing my hair out trying to find a good solution...lol... but maybe i missed something.
happy new year.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
No problem. You didn't mention this method and it's the older way it's done, so it's easy to overlook. I think the default is to render a single master stereo track so changes have to be made to render individual tracks. Just mentioned it in case it may fit the situation.
RealBand now uses bbw2_64.exe ver.1005 in C:\bb it used to be in C:\RealBand\Data. Why can't bbw2_64.exe ver.1005 open the frozen SGU and give all those BB & Utility tracks into RealBand ? it's the same application as bbw_64.exe I said that Biab should write all the track data to C:\bb\Data\BBoutput.txt of all the current track states. Realband could read the BBoutput.txt directly into it's tracks as I can with Reaper. That's why I suggested to have a button in the BBPlugin to do this.
what i grapple with every time i use realband is how deep its feature set is…and what would have happened if a more aggressive development schedule had been adopted 10 years ago. cos there was a golden opportunity to dominate the market. its only if one makes the effort to dig deeply into rb does one realise its potential.
literally users of music production software (putting my ex marketing hat on) would have been beating down the doors to buy and use rb with a more aggressive development schedule…. it wouldnt take a lot of manpower resources either. what i mean is , reaper , for example i understand has always been developed with a couple of developers ?...but with a very aggressive development stance.
what concerns me is, strategically…if a established software company with big bucks or a new entrant got v aggressive and hired a bunch of musos…bingo !.. having worked in tech…ive seen some big names lose market dominance to well funded and sometimes smaller rivals. (look what happened to IBM in ceding the low end pc market years back.) eg what would happen if a reaper or studio one or even an apple decided to get into AI//trak auto accompaniement features big time by hiring session musicians in lots of various music genres ? already certain companies offer chord traks. which maybe be a small step…but there are possible implications in the future for pg.
frankly i love to see small companies like pg succeed and reaper etc. (so the big dogs cant squeeze and collar the market for big bucks….which is good for the poor musicians of the world.)
what i also dont understand is, having talked to pg support staff on occasion ive been very very impressed by the level of tech knowledge exhibited.
so why isnt realband further along ? i just dont understand.
further to my testing deeply this week and in the past of BB >> RB trak transfer it become apparent to me the need for the 'big honking button feature' in biab ive detailed upthread. cos its so 'fiddly' as it stands imho transferring traks from bb to rb. including features hidden in menus which would not be apparent to particularly new users. ie 'one must dig'. luckily i'm a digger..lol.
what i dont understand is, with all that obviously deep tech knowledge at pg, … is it recognised that 'fiddly//hidden stuff' drives users bonkers ?? ..oh well easter egg hunts are coming up..love em' lol.
have a great year MCity.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
I was speaking to a Music producer in Nashville an I mentioned BIAB, he replied "Myself, I find the user interface to BIAB one of the most confounding, and downright biggest UI messes ever, but that's just me. But... that is a great program in terms of what it can do and those real tracks they use now, sound more realistic than anything anyone has going. It really is fantastic." (he also has friends who have recorded for PG)
Well I don't think he is the only one, this is something we hear most often. I mentioned Realband as how many even know of it's existence ?
I think PG needs to vastly improve and promote RB as a decent DAW that can generate Real Tracks that can be used in this Industry and get away from the Auto Accompaniment of BIAB. It is great to use even 1 or 2 RTs in a session.
PG you need to remove all reminiscent of DOS and make it more solid and reliable so it can compete on the world stage with the other sleek DAWs, what other DAWs can do what RB can do ? not even Cubase Chord Track !
Most in this Industry use DAWs, it would be a no brainer to move to RB.
PG I know you will see the picture and get there eventually, but it just takes soooo long.
Thanks.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research ― Albert Einstein
BIAB drag n drop, drag n drop, drag n drop. . . . to main DAW, oh that don't fit will generate, drag n drop again. . You can't really record in RB, it needs multitrack record arm for each track for selected input, and draw the wav while recording. It needs more Node modes so you can still mix while parts are muted. Yes going to 64 bit will help and yes more RT RD, if they just have DI guitars that will save a lot of space. They will get there eventually as I said, but yea it takes soooo loooong.
How many folks even know there is "RealBand" Everywhere over the net all you see and hear is "Band in a Box" that development priority goes in to.
Updates: Now RB has still a lot of Bugs.
Realband RealBand 2014 Build 7 (Feb 27-2014)
Band in a Box Biab 2014 Build 381 (March 10, 2014)
Biab 2014 Build 383 (July 15, 2014)
Biab 2014 Build 384 (July 18, 2014)
Biab 2014 Build 385 (Sept 25, 2014)
Maybe the guys in their lunch break can have a play with some of the Bugs ?
REAPER
" Refugees Welcome If you currently use another DAW, you might be reading this because you're contemplating shelling out $150 for the next overhyped version that doesn't address any of the bugs you've been complaining about for five years while adding a bunch of features you couldn't care less about...
It is a shame that PG can't see how ahead Realband could be over other DAWs if they had better programing on the "junior school" GUI, imagine having an interface like Reaper but being able to generate up realtracks/drums and midi ! PG you need to put more development priority into Realband then we can do everything in the same program, start to finish.
At the end of the day you are pretty limited to what you can do with Stereo RealDrums, there should be option to generate intros, different endings and fills etc.. there is no button to "Cut Loose" and generate a great drum solo and not be restricted as if playing in a church. I think soon you will see Super RealDrums that will be Multichannel, do all of this and have a lot more variation to choose from. They will still of course have Stereo RealDrums for those who don't need or want to venture any further, just as you still have a choice of Midi Drums over RealDrums.
With just this you are limited, don't get me wrong they are great but not the end of the story.
I was just watching "History of The Eagles" Glenn was saying when they recorded in England with Glyn Johns they had no control over the recording or producing. In the States they found Bill Szymczyk and the first thing they asked him was "do you mind if we put a mic on each drum so we have more control over the mix" Bill replied "sure no problem"
another poser is if a rb project is already displayed on screen. with say x//xx number of traks already filled eg first 24 traks,,thus the user could be asked i guess 'add bb traks starting at rb trak 25' ??
I got RB out of storage and was trying it out. So in Reaper on the right I had the frozen tracks sections from Biab. I can drag n drop each section into RB. Reaper is using the source wav files. RealBand creates new wav files in it's temp folder.
Why can't RB as you say have 24 non destructive tracks the same as Biab that are just for this purpose and work the same way as Biab. So bbw2 just creates the WAV Instructions for these tracks (or reads from BBoutput.txt of current Biab tracks) that are then written to RAM same as Biab because not everyone has the wav file version that can be played direct as it plays the wav's in it's temp, and only have wma. It might be asking too much to get RB to play the wma direct ?
I post all this info that comes to me how it could be done that PG may or may not use but the issue I keep sensing is PG are working flat out everyday of the year on bbw_64.exe or Band in a Box.app and hardly get any time to do bbw4_64.exe for the Plugin let alone RealBand and bbw2_64.exe I feel like Oliver Twist asking for more. As I said before if I could program Delphi I would work on it then upload it for you to try, but I can't, I can only do scripting in Reaper and make everything in that.
as always great ideas. as ive said before i would be 'over the moon' with an all flac bb/rb (or wavpack)song creation environment like reaps for reasons ive explained before.
heres another 'poser'...lol.
many of us here like myself have prolly recorded in the past in a big tape based studio (eg studer etc etc).
it would be lovely to bring the digitised masters of the old tape songs,...do a spleeter thing built into rb//AI... then record more traks in rb to 'beef up' the old song. eg in some cases a song might not have been started in bb, but in rb. eg lets take the powertraks user (which i started on yonks ago) and then moved to rb//bb.
re above maybe such a user wants to add bb traks to a old rb or ptw project...ie not involving bb initially. OR lets take myself...in the past i might have wanted to GET A SONG DOWN FAST without testing out rd's//rt's etc. ie when i'm in a 'crazy creative zone'..lol..i just wanna work fast...set up a clik and whack down a bunch of guitar n' vocal traks...cos this way one gets a quick idea if the song concept is gonna 'fly or not'.
given the above its ok if one works to a 'clik' ..one can often add rt's//rd's after the fact once one has verified via 'rough quicky demo' song flies and is worth further development. BUT what if one got the song down 'freeform'. n' then wants to add rt's//rd's etc via bb or rb ? its kinda fiddly ive found...but maybe i'm stoopid lol.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/18/2303:35 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
"as always great ideas. as ive said before i would be 'over the moon' with an all flac bb/rb (or wavpack)song creation environment like reaps for reasons ive explained before. "
I think it's all set it so many ways to work with wav. The more I think about RB and what I've been through with it, I hang my head I think the Plugin is where the development will be as Adar seems to be quick with that, I think the waiting is for the bb4 side of it like RB has the bb2 side once that's all within the Plugin it will go ahead as a Plugin and the Standalone will be used more so than Biab.
I remember getting tracks off of tape to work with in the DAW but they where multitrack, there were on there for years but came off ok after a lot of cleaning.
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