|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,747
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,747 |
This is an interesting topic and one that hits pretty close to home. After all, we're using BB which allows non musicians to generate complete songs that sound like a group of professional musicians played the parts. We're now seeing the beginnings of AI for writing lyrics in the form of chat and apps that are writing complete song lyrics in mere seconds. The quality of the writing is, at this point, fairly poor, however, with time, it will undoubtedly get significantly better. This is a hot topic. Here's Rick Beato's interesting take on what is happening and what might be coming. [video:youtube] https://youtu.be/6IV29YNTH3M[/video]
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/17/23 03:54 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,396
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,396 |
FWIW here is my prediction. Yea AI will get better and begin creating complete songs. But somewhere down the line some kids will get the idea to jam and it will be new again. Much like grunge taking over the super polished hair bands. OR like the Foo Fighters recording everything at once like it was done in the past.
Also audiophile is a thing of the past. No one is critically listening to music anymore, or at least very few are listening like they did in the 1950s and 60s.
Love is grand.
Divorce is twenty grand!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,741 |
I generally agree with many things Rick says. We will always have Live musicians creating music. We will likely have BIAB or something like it for years to come.
The question is less about how music gets generated than who gets paid. Who gets paid does not always require producing a quality product. We buy a ton of crap every day.
For us here, using BIAB to create songs, who gets paid, is mostly irrelevant. Only a few are getting paid.
Even if a person is a highly skilled musician using any method of production, the results will be the same in most cases. Post on SoundCloud or another site and get a hand full of views. Some magic happens, and you get 5000 views...wow! So what? Get 500,000 views, and things began to change. Get five million views, and a bit of money starts to come in, but you are still basically a nobody.
A few people do win the lottery. A few become well-known musicians, and a few of them get super well-paid. Perhaps someone will hit the jackpot with a BIAB song. Most anything is possible, just not very likely.
All of this comes down to this question. Do you want to be in the music business, or do you want to create music to entertain yourself and a few friends?
There is some uncomfortable truth about living in the USA in 2023. The Walmart parking lot is running over with cars. There is plenty of parking at Neiman Marcus. The ever-ongoing decline of the middle class is causing us to buy less quality music and other goods and services, at higher prices, with less customer service.
There is also a severe lack of regard for quality products. Does an internet-downloaded MP3 played through the headset on a smartphone in any way compared with a vinal album with cover art with written information played through a high-quality stereo system?
Well, it sucks, as I am on my way to Walmart as soon as I get up from this computer!
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,973
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,973 |
Formulaic writing has been around as long as printed music. Indeed, there have been many attempts to automate it over the centuries, though Mozart's dice game was likely written in jest. The Brill Building, Tin Pan Alley, Hollywood, Denmark St. (London), Nashville… All had writers beating each other up by copying each other looking for that little spark that generates a hit. from Denmark St. (Kinks)
You go to a publisher and play him your song
He says, "I hate your music and you hair is too long
But I'll sign you up because I'd hate to be wrong"
You've got a tune, it's in your head, you want to get it placed
So you take it down to a music man, just to see what he will say
He says, "I hate the tune, I hate the words, I'll tell you what I'll do
I'll sign you up and take it round the street
And I'll see if it makes the grade
And you might even hear it played on the rock and roll hit parade"
Ray Davies Let's see… A machine writes your words Another machine writes your music Yet another arranges it or You download loops, cut copy and paste Did you actually create anything? Are you be proud of it? No thanks.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,934
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,934 |
Amazing that Rick video is a year old!! One wonders what has changed in a year.
I am so intrigued by this topic. My LyricLab app is doing really quite well. People love it, but many are saying, “okay, so this is great but how do I put music to these lyrics?”. My standard answer is “well, I use Band-in-a-box to provide musical ideas. I enter a chord progression and style that inspires me and then I sing and play along, making changes to the chords and lyrics until I am happy (ish).”
But even that is a bridge too far for many of the people who have subscribed to my app.
There is a market for a simple tool that will take a lyric and generate chords and melody (along with a AI vocal). And that will be an awesome starting point for many people who want to experience the joy of writing (and eventually performing) their own songs.
Now just to find that tool!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,747
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,747 |
Amazing that Rick video is a year old!! One wonders what has changed in a year.
I am so intrigued by this topic. My LyricLab app is doing really quite well. People love it, but many are saying, “okay, so this is great but how do I put music to these lyrics?”. My standard answer is “well, I use Band-in-a-box to provide musical ideas. I enter a chord progression and style that inspires me and then I sing and play along, making changes to the chords and lyrics until I am happy (ish).”
But even that is a bridge too far for many of the people who have subscribed to my app.
There is a market for a simple tool that will take a lyric and generate chords and melody (along with a AI vocal). And that will be an awesome starting point for many people who want to experience the joy of writing (and eventually performing) their own songs.
Now just to find that tool!
You app, while still in the primitive first stages, will undoubtedly improve as you refine it and add to it. Currently, it does provide grist from which one can, with a bit of effort and grey matter, produce a workable lyric that would otherwise not have existed before.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,689 |
Here’s how I have used AI (or something like it) and why I don’t feel like I am compromising my human creativity.
As mentioned elsewhere, I have this software that generates music using fractal mathematics. You configure a bunch of settings and request a certain amount of musical matter and voila, you get a 4-track MIDI file. In its raw form, this MIDI music sounds pretty boring as there’s no instrumentation specified, just notes, but I then take this raw material and explode tracks into multiple parts, assign instruments and processes and effects, and edit like mad, doing anything at all that sounds good to me, and in the end I get a finished piece that sounds pretty good.
I do, however, wonder, “Who wrote it?” I hear things in this music’s complex harmonies that I like a lot but do not understand at all, and so hesitate to take composer credit for. It’s not like the software was a tool of convenience; there’s no way I would have been able to create that quartet on my own at all, not one single bar.
BUT… the raw MIDI played back using a default piano sound sounds dinky and boring and old-fashioned video-gamey while my finished piece sounds, I think, like real music. And I would like to claim some major authorship credit for that real music, though it would be really best characterized as a collaboration with the software. I will happily call this music “mine”, and tag it with my name, as its creator — but I would never think to publish it without explaining its mechanical origin, so the listener/reader can think what they will. *
Of course, there’s a very different level of AI engagement that appears to be dawning all around us: prompt-based generation of finished material given nothing but a few words. “Sad song about railroads in the style of Mozart”, that sort of thing. Taken to its extreme you can even just say, “Give me a song” and get something. That’s what is freaking people out, the idea of the complete disappearance of a human role that’s something other than product consumer.
BUT… with good AI tools, you won’t just say, “Give me a song”, you’ll engage in a long iterative process where the AI offers material and you request it to refine or expand it in some way, and this gets repeated over and over and built upon until you have a robust product with your human creativity all through it. Like: in the middle of a sax solo, you direct the AI to modify a previously-generated phrase to be “Irish-sounding” and add a lyric line about sheep. You do that for hours and hours, for several days, adding and subtracting and refining material until in the end you have something you’re willing to put your name on and which, I think, you will be 100% humanly entitled to.
Advances in AI will result, not in elimination of the human role, but in advances and innovations in the human artistic processes that use it. And I for one can’t wait to play with MusicLM.
Mark
——
* Interestingly (to me) I’ve used the exact same approach to music creation with stuff like farm recordings of chickens and roosters as raw material, using software to convert crowing and clucking and water bowl banging into MIDI melodies and going to town from there. In that case, there’s no AI to share credit with, so I don’t see who else there is to blame this stuff for but me. =8^)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,631
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,631 |
Advances in AI will result, not in elimination of the human role, but in advances and innovations in the human artistic processes that use it. And I for one can’t wait to play with MusicLM. That of course has been the story of technological advancement since the dawn of technology. What happens is that the tasks we perform evolve so that we do different tasks and have a greater productivity (even if sometimes it doesn't feel that way). Mostly it's ended up being for the best.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732 |
BUT… with good AI tools, you won’t just say, “Give me a song”, you’ll engage in a long iterative process where the AI offers material and you request it to refine or expand it in some way, and this gets repeated over and over and built upon until you have a robust product with your human creativity all through it. I think we are there with lyrics on ChatGPT. I've noticed that the more detail I can give it on my request, the more satisfying result I get. Better detail helps AI produce better results.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,973
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,973 |
This will be everybody, soon enough. Sci-fi magazine halts new submissions after a surge in AI-written stories I recently told one of my clients that my VO fee is doubled if I am given AI generated copy to read. It takes me longer to edit it into something good than to write the copy from scratch. "Just tell me what you want it to say…" They paid it, BTW and were much happier with my revised copy.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 1
Newbie
|
|
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 1 |
One of the only AI Music companies out there that can vet 100% copyright and royalty free music is Aimi.fm
Unlike other ai music companies, their content is NOT trained on existing material. Instead, they trained the AI to make music the way a producer would - in other words, it understands the rules and structures of different genres of music and uses this information to build generative "experiences" in real time.
They just launched a series of products that let you use their tech to make music.
Thought id mention in here for those interested.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,047
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,047 |
I think it's a matter of "watch this space". There are lots of things happening in this field, no question.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,973
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,973 |
One of the only AI Music companies out there that can vet 100% copyright and royalty free music is Aimi.fm
Unlike other ai music companies, their content is NOT trained on existing material. Instead, they trained the AI to make music the way a producer would - in other words, it understands the rules and structures of different genres of music and uses this information to build generative "experiences" in real time. What's next, a perpetual motion machine rhat works?
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,973
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,973 |
A dose of reality. AI Stock Bubble Large Language Models like ChatGPT have run out of stuff to train on, and the more they are trained on "the internet," the more the internet contains a body of work written by AI — degrading the product in question.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,747
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,747 |
A dose of reality. AI Stock Bubble Large Language Models like ChatGPT have run out of stuff to train on, and the more they are trained on "the internet," the more the internet contains a body of work written by AI — degrading the product in question. Interesting. In a few songwriter groups I'm in on the media platforms, I'm seeing a bunch of people using AI and claiming they are the writer. The problem is it's really easy to tell because all the songs kinda sound the same and have a common sound quality to them and the lyrics are so similar in composition. It's easy to spot the AI stuff in the first few seconds. It's not hard to believe the story that they've run out of material to train on and the result is they're all outputting the pink slime now. ( A reference to the common ingredient in all fast food)
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,973
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,973 |
A dose of reality. AI Stock Bubble Large Language Models like ChatGPT have run out of stuff to train on, and the more they are trained on "the internet," the more the internet contains a body of work written by AI — degrading the product in question. Interesting. In a few songwriter groups I'm in on the media platforms, I'm seeing a bunch of people using AI and claiming they are the writer. The problem is it's really easy to tell because all the songs kinda sound the same and have a common sound quality to them and the lyrics are so similar in composition. It's easy to spot the AI stuff in the first few seconds. It's not hard to believe the story that they've run out of material to train on and the result is they're all outputting the pink slime now. ( A reference to the common ingredient in all fast food) Something like that.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
PowerTracks Pro 2026 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks 2026 is here—bringing powerful new enhancements designed to make your production workflow faster, smoother, and more intuitive than ever.
The enhanced Mixer now shows Track Type and Instrument icons for instant track recognition, while a new grid option simplifies editing views. Non-floating windows adopt a modern title bar style, replacing the legacy blue bar.
The Master Volume is now applied at the end of the audio chain for consistent levels and full-signal master effects.
Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
Get started today—first-time packages start at just $49.
Already using PowerTracks Pro Audio? Upgrade for as little as $29 and enjoy the latest improvements!
Order now!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,890
Posts797,376
Members39,981
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean