(i won't go into previous wishes/product ideas…just hope i might see them at same point.)
let me say having gone thru' the new feature vids re 2023…there are lots of nice features. just a few ideas.
1..it would be nice instead of using a edit menu dialog to copy/move traks to other traks..how about this ? lets say i want to copy or move legacy piano trak to utility trak 4..how about drag with mouse piano trak name to utility 4 name…then,a little window pops up with just 2 options. ie..'do you want to copy OR move ?' and user selects option.
2..i would like the audit editing features to become more daw like...particular re audio editing of sliced up clips. (eg vocs.) ie its nice to see vol automation but, having used such many times in the past i like how some daws do it. see my comment to Jeff Y for more details.. re special editing icons for realband. ie... PG Music Product Forums » RealBand » RB ignores F5 commands..page 2.
3..one thing that troubles me is rests/shots/holds etc. eg if i want only say a agogo playing at begin of song for first 4 bars… on utility trak 1 AND i have other instruments on several other utility traks then i would have to silence the other utility traks for the first 4 bars using the biab audio editor correct ?? legacy traks no prob…thus my question… why cant i just put into chord sheet for 4 bars eg… c.u1 c.u1 c.u1 c.u1. ie only play utility 1 for 4 bars…wouldnt this save a number of audio editor steps ? ie thus using the existing nomenclature of legacy traks that we are all familiar with ? please correct me if i'm missing something.
reason i mention above is looking at the 2023 new features vids that there seems to be lots of activity occurring in the audio editor. and i'm wondering how things might be simplified. eg rests/shots/holds/pushes/copies/moves/parts of a track ie clips. etc. maybe i'm missing something ?
one BIG THING//approach i like with 2023 biab feature set is less generation of wav files ie saving the user disc space. this is v nice.
1. If you could click on the Mixer track name then Ctrl+C or Ctrl+X then when you click on the destination track name on the Mixer and Ctrl+V then the dialog (see pic below) will pop up with either Copy or Move set. Don't know if the copy tracks copies the volume, pan etc.. or VSTs ? if not that maybe something to look at.
2. So are you talking about clip editing, dragging, fading, volume like Reaper ?
3. With C.u1 if the track in the Mixer had the number in front of it no matter what the name is you can go by the number, so all the dropdown track lists will have a number that you can use for C.1 or C...3,5 rather than C.b,d,g yet still be backward compatible. Maybe when you select some bars in the chord sheet then in the right click menu you can mute/unmute that section of a track in the track list that will show. Another is have a snap option in the Audio Edit of 1/4 1/8 1/16 and be able to copy/cut the automation points in the time selection and be able to paste on same track or another track. All the more reason to show all the tracks in the Audio Edit same as a DAW.
1..the drag was just a suggested method of simplification and less user steps. yes exactly it would be nice on the drag//copy//move if the original traks settings were applied to the new trak. 2..well…lol… i didnt want to mention the daw name as i'm sure some people are fed up hearing the name of this popular daw. but YES. this would save me going to/fro tween biab and the daw cos i like the way i can do comps in that daw. frankly i'm not a fan of using points for automation as i find the process 'fiddly'. (also i'm a tad vision impaired and get tired fast using that type of automation…particularly if a trak needs many edits.) let me give you an example of the type of tasks (of many) i might perform in 'other non bb daw'. as follows. eg voc comps occasionally. 2.1…i record lets say 4 takes of lead vocs. 2.2..there is a mistake in take 1 bar 9 with a word. so hilite the 'clip' from rest of trak. go to top of clip and likkle arrow appears..drag down. 2.3..there is a 'p'losive on trak 4 at bar 34…once again isolate and drag a fader that appears when mouse placed side of clip top left. 2.4..above examples you know what i'm getting at obviously. for arguments sake lets say ive finished my 'tarting up//basic editing ' of the 4 traks. now we comp from the 4 traks. this is much easier seeing all 4 voc traks on screen of course. so i can do stuff like cut out a word at bar 3 on trak 3, and select best word from other traks as one example. in summary , yes..it would make my editing//comp life easier if a few more editing features were added to biab. particularly in the area of isolation and manipulation of individual clips. this would stop me needing to go to the other daw for instancies of 'complex' edits. i could stay mainly in biab (or realband.)
3..re your point 3 i would be happy with a trak numbering system starting at 1 of first legacy trak and going up from there. eg c.1 or c…4 whatever.
1. Yes you could Ctrl + drag to copy and Shift + drag and it does a quick direct copy/move clone of audio & midi without that dialog with all the options and if you use ctrl+c or ctrl+x it will give the options dialog ?
2. I try to mention Biab as much as possible in that DAW forum. Yes that's what I have done in Audition with vocal takes, it's better with clip non destructive editing than as you say volume lane automation is fiddly but with clip automation you can move it around and still retain the automation. So would you just have this for recorded or imported audio files or the RealTrack clip sections also ? would you need to reference the source files or would it create a copy of them in a folder the same name as the "my song.SGU" "my song_files" when saved ? or like the DAW give an option ? In that DAW I can load all the RealTrack source file sections into the track and lengthen or shorten each clip giving more creative control so having the RealTracks as clip sections as well would be good but I hope we don't frighten PG off with these suggestions. It should be like this in RealBand, I suggested the the volume automation in RealBand as it would of been too much of an ask at the time for anything more as it was hard enough to get that.
(note TOD = the other daw that shant be mentioned…lol.)
yep you make good points mate as always.
in the TOD forum it always amused me when someone posted… 'ssssh, dont let the cat out of the bag by mentioning using TOD with biab"… a magical combo of course that i use to this day (and rb.) imho.
What I'm interested in is how much more 'agile' biab 2023 is due to less reliance on the wav format. I really really like this feature/idea. a big YES to clip features handling all sorts of audio/midi/imported data types etc etc. just like TOD.
A problem for me (not fault of biab) is due to my likkle slight vision issue that sometimes I get frustrated with dealing/fiddling with piano rolls. Also, like a lot of rockers, I am totally useless at notation. i'm sure i'm not alone in this..but i admire people that are experts in such.
(lol…your giggle for the day...the only reason i went to music notation class when i was a teen in a uk grammar school was the old music teacher retired, and in the new school year, was replaced by this 'goddess'. suddenly notation class went from 9 people to being 'packed to the rafters standing room only and out to the corridor '..ie the word spread rapidly lol. We figured the school head wanted to get more blokes interested in music theory and thus hired the goddess straight out of teacher training. Us men are so stoopid. just good old human nature.)
thus given above i noticed that in the 2023 videos that one should really hone ones piano roll and notation skills..eg for 'playable real traks" OR is there another method for vision impared people like me ? One reason i wanted bars view in biab is i found it v helpful in powertraks and now realband to move bits of trak around easily. i find this 'a tad fiddly' for example in piano roll. but maybe thats my own fault. so i do such in TOD or RB.
overall i feel that biab becoming more 'daw like' is an excellent way to go.
OMG only 4 words for that SUPERB ! BRILLIANT ! MAGNIFICENT ! KUDOS !!.
(i dont know what country you live in mate but your a big credit to it. )
nailed it !! i wish i could do graphics like you.
this would cover all my needs.
In addition this way one could do some really fancy stuff in a session and tricks. this would definitely keep me in biab….and help with comping etc. add in pan automation of some sort at the clip level and away we go…a good example is my speedway song on soundclud where i used pan automation in TOD to make the race cars fx zoom around at song start etc. there are other plusses also…viz… lets say a singer or an rt is slightly early or late with a vocal word/phrase or instrument lick, this can easily be fixed per your example. in summary total editing flexibility.
maybe an idea ? vertical trak scrolling with mouse wheel when held over audio edit window ? ie...one could do v quick copies/moves of clips tween traks ? n' comp to a final trak assembled from best clips from the traks if one wished...eg lets say traks 11 to 14 are 4 takes of vocs or a instrument just make a comp on trak 15 of the best clips from each of the 4 takes. also doing stacks would be easy this way.
Yes you could scroll tracks up/down with the mouse. The ACW could just show one track at a time and scroll track by track up/down then in the Audio Edit window or floating Audio Edit window it could show more tracks as well as vertical scroll and vertical zoom. It's showing the track name in the waveform, this will also show where there is an instrument change. I don't want to give them a heart attack, this might be a bit of a shock also ?
there are only 3 features keeping me from using bb/rb full time that are provided by TOD…ie…
..v precise audio editing features/capability per your vid upthread. ..the flac (and i'm now looking at wavpk) feature. ..the ability to track plugin resource useage etc. ie tell me if any new plug in could bring a pc to its knees. I like this in TOD.
if i could do in bb what you showed in your vids i would be all over it. perchance to dream...lol. tbh i reckon if the above features were added to bb/rb the word would get round fast in the creative community. cos the pg products would have no competition imho.
i wouldnt need TOD. what i find interesting is even before the release of V2 of TOD..it had the features listed above.
"i wouldnt need TOD. what i find interesting is even before the release of V2 of TOD..it had the features listed above. "
Yes, I don't think PG has taken interest in anything else to do with midi/audio production like we would do, you look at other things to see what's new or if there's better ways to do things, TRY other things. I think maybe just keyboards, arranger keyboards would take their interest. That's why they have been left behind and are rushing now all the time to play catch up. Man they have so much catching up to do and no spare time to do it These guys have the right idea !
My wife used to say when I worked in tech I was too demanding of myself. so maybe i'm being too demanding of biab/rb. I just have a perspective, of a future biab/rb product, that would be wonderful. and your great graphics always egg me on even more…lol.
just one example..imagine a future rb product that featured deep editing like your graphic upthread for bb. i would love to see a rb traks view graphic from you showing the features like you did for bb. i would be totally rocking.
imagine rb with some of the features weve discussed…wowser. flac or wavpac//editing like ****** etc etc…and i would be popping the champers corks…lol. cos it would save me work dealing with different music production software to do a song. for example iive recorded thousands of voc tracks in ****** useing flac cos of the deep editing features. (ive also recorded loads of traks in rb n' ptw before it) but for me i find ******is more of a doddle.
maybe you could do one of your great moving graphics for rb traks view so i can dream..lol you know with mouse/pointer audio editing actions etc etc in a rb traks view.
i was thinking that maybe the marketing strategy for bb n' rb might be 'leave em' always wanting more'....dunno.
one thing i'm interested in (as apples M cpus have peaked my interest) is how much the cheapest mac m2 (or coming m3 ?) might impact the big bucks macs re sales. cos for most project studios looks to me that a low cost M2/M3 mac would suffice unless one needs to use a bazillion resource hungry vi's//plug ins etc etc. seems to me that if pg could pull it off and its software used the same lossless format throughout on both mac and pc that it might be useful for not just pg but also users ? using both platforms ? but it looks like apple have their own ALAC not FLAC ?
this is the first time ive been interested in apple due to the pricing of the mini and the fact i dont need a slew of traks n' plug ins like some big commercial recording studios do that might buy high end macs// cheese graters etc. (so far i'm uber happy with my new 400 buckie m2ssd 16gb ryzen mini pc that does everything i throw at it..and was wondering what a mini mac might do for me.)
another dream I have…lol… is running rb on a 80 buck raspberry pi (or clone) like 2 daws that shant be named do currently.. rb would have the auto accompaniment advantage of course. maybe a pi 5 or 6 with a above 3ghz processor if/when it comes out.
This version of RB generates up the track data internally without bbw2 running in the background, so the tracks are instant. All the tracks sections are played direct from the hard drive source files same as all other DAWs. It has non destructive editing, you can use other formats, it has an option to convert your RealTrack/Drums source files to any format you like. Zoom++
even better with an all flac lossless recording/playback environment. (or wavpk). sheer joy.
yes i see what your saying about not needing the back end bb engine and direct play off the drive. which is kinda interesting also as ive been reading about a new microsoft low level api called DIRECT STORAGE. ostensibly to boost performance of games it seems…and loading times ?
thus i'm wondering how this might impact the performance of music production software. eg faster loading times of rt's etc ?? faster generation times maybe ?? faster virtual instrument load times of samples maybe ?
another thing i was pondering is with direct storage ms api for coders does this make a even more compelling argument for lossless features in music software ? ie what are the positive impacts on lossless timings for encode//decode ?? i dunno.
now i'm gonna go n' dream about that rb graphic of yours…lol.
You don't need new performance functions in Windows to make Biab generate faster, you just need to change Biab/RB/Plugin into the modern age. All tracks can be generated instantly in this day and age as I keep showing over n over again. This nails the issue !
When TOD V2 was released where were PG ? when Studio Zero (Kristal) was released where were PG ?
you know your fab moving rb graphic upthread showing advanced editing like 'you know what'.?
i had a couple ideas more …could you amend your rb graphic masterpiece upthread pretty please ?
1..insert a trak 0 or trak CH above trak1 rb to be a chord trak ? under tool bars. 2..can type chords into chord trak. same options as chord view. 3..right clik on chord or bar in chord trak n' get all usual options etc. 4..maybe showing a rb moving graphic showing 6 traks of vocals or anything and showing how mousey hilites bits of each trak to form a final compositeto a comp final trak.
eg traks 12 thru' 18 in rb are various voc 'takes' n' trak 19 is final comp trak from all the selected clips in the other traks...??
if pg did that i would be over the moon with joy. a true dream daw i can see now the marketing.. 'REALBAND YOUR DREAM DAW '.
also having chord trak in traks view sorta obsoletes chord view. (note as one scrolls vertically on left hand of traks view thru' the rb 48 traks chord trak stays static obviously. horizontal moves of course chord trak moves horizontally.)
The chord track can be zoomed in/out to enter chords on 1/4 1/8 1/16 rather than using a micro chord dialog and showing stacked pancake chords in the chord sheet.
as an ex tech product mgr in a previous life i bow down before you sir. add in non destructive editing and other wishes and its a daw that would stand head n' shoulders above anything else on the market.
i really hope jeff Y and pg see that great pic.
only thing i wish for as i'm vision impaired is that the chord trak has the same height as the trak waveform graphics and be moved down to be just above trak 1 and below the horizontal bar timings line. eg...
RB ICON LINE AS NOW PLUS >>TIME LINE >>>>>>>>>>
chord track....... >>>c d e f g or whatever chords
heres a joke on me. my mates say to me 'why do you spend sooo much time on song stuff when you have such a beautiful wife'...then my wife pipes up 'i buy him gear for b'day n' exmas cos i get the remote to watch my chick shows'...lmao.
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