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There is a fundamental difference between BIAB and AI. AI can change its outputs based on new inputs, while an algorithm (BIAB) always generates the same output for a given input.
So, no, BIAB has no AI involved that I am aware of.
I'm not trying to start a war, I just trying to understand.If you think there is no skill or creativity involved in generating an AI song, make one in Synthesizer V using BIAB for the backing track and post it.
At some point in the future, perhaps we will be able to describe what we want to hear, and a hit a button and a song will result. That is not today.
Actually, I think much better AI software will require even more skill and creativity to use and get good results.
Billy
I don't care what it is but if it gets more people interested in making and understanding music then I'm all for it.
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64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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[quote=Planobilly]There is a fundamental difference between BIAB and AI. AI can change its outputs based on new inputs, while an algorithm (BIAB) always generates the same output for a given input.
So, no, BIAB has no AI involved that I am aware of.
I'm not trying to start a war, I just trying to understand.[quote=Planobilly] Mario, I could be wrong here but from what I know and have seen in BiaB, it does not contain AI. You can easily get different outputs when given the same inputs from simple look-up (sequential) tables where execution 1 uses value 1, execution 2 uses value 2, etc. Or you can achieve different outputs from stochastic methods (sampling from a probability distribution such as a bell curve).
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I very much doubt that BiaB currently has any of its own integrated AI. The program has sequences of predefined patterns which it can cleverly join in multiple different random ways to provide a neat result.
Each new generation uses a combination of the same or different patterns in perhaps a different sequence to produce a different result.
Artificial Intelligence on the other hand is the simulation of human intelligence processes by machines.
I really don't believe that BiaB simulates human intelligence. I think it provides innovative pattern matching techniques.
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Perhaps this is a short clip of where BIAB already is with the use of AI. This is a short experimental clip generated out of BIAB using both BIAB as a backing track and a BIAB vocal converted to a midi to provide the vocal melody for the AI. This has not been mixed and has only been modified through pitch correction. There is a large amount of control that can be used in both programs. https://soundcloud.com/planobillydfw-89880386/test-take-fiveWhat generally happens as technologies mature there is better/easier integration. To answer the original question, "where is BIAB going", there is only one likely answer. They will go where they must go to stay profitable. To further confuse the issue of AI-generated vocals, not all vocals from Synthesizer V are AI-generated. Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Artificial Intelligence (AI) is an umbrella term for computer software that mimics human cognition in order to perform complex tasks and learn from them. Machine learning (ML) is a subfield of AI that uses algorithms trained on data to produce adaptable models that can perform a variety of complex tasks.
Clear as mud.
Just remember if we don't want the machines to take over, don't build them in the first place.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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I suppose if I wanted to write a song, AI could do it for me.
I've tried writing, and for me, the lyrics always sound trite and corny, a lame repetition of what others have written. AI could probably do it that well.
But I'm not really a songwriter. I am a musician, I play music, I interpret music, I arrange music, I improvise over chord changes, I get into that zone where there is no me, no thought, just the music flowing through me, and it's the most fun I can have with my clothes on.
Why would I want AI to do that?
So if someone writes a song with AI that I like, I'll be happy to reinterpret it, and play an improvised solo section.
I really don't know if BiaB technically qualifies as AI or not. I do know that I can plug some chords into BiaB, choose a style, pick up my sax, and have a backing band around when I want to try something out.
Plus, I know that I can load the chord changes to a song, and choose many different styles to hear what it sounds like as a Reggae, Blues, Swing, Funk, or any other style song.
I don't think this is something that ChatGPT is going to do for me anytime soon.
I truly feel that almost every musician would benefit from having these three tools: A sequencer/DAW, Band-in-a-Box, and a full-blown notation program. Perhaps someday a fourth essential tool might be added to that list, and it might be something like ChatGPT.
But like the electric guitar, never replaced acoustic guitars, Sousaphones never replaced tubas, and synthesizers never replaced pianos, I think AI will simply add something new to our choices.
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Mario, I could be wrong here but from what I know and have seen in BiaB, it does not contain AI. You can easily get different outputs when given the same inputs from simple look-up (sequential) tables where execution 1 uses value 1, execution 2 uses value 2, etc. Or you can achieve different outputs from stochastic methods (sampling from a probability distribution such as a bell curve).
Thanx Steve for that info. As long as I can make music with BiaB I don't care what is under the hood.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Firstly, I'm an old guy but I've enjoyed tech things since I was a kid when taking apart radios and building Heatkits. I find AI fascinating and not, as many, threatening. However Biab is so multifaceted that in general it IMHO must be considered within the context of the user. And this is from a guys who loves BiaB but uses a tiny percentage of its capabilities. AI providing a backing track and vocals per request is one thing. Another is sitting at a DAW comping up multiple generations of RT's, MST's and RD's to support your song. And pitching shift RT's notes to segue as you like into vocals, tags, etc. And then mixing it all to your likes. You and your hmmmmm ... isn't that based on your experiences, your likes and dislikes, your definitions of feeling and soul? So perhaps you could end up with an AI product some or perhaps many folks like. But would you? OK I do understand that with the development of ChatGPT, etc., you might be able to talk with AI for hours or days until is understood you and what you want. Oh, wait a minute, I think I read this morning that Bing with incorporated ChatGPT is bombing out after a longish session and even making insulting comments, etc. Yeah we are on the cusp and so much more is to come. Of course that view often seems to assume no limits or long stalls … all of which have occurred with many other technologies.
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A few years ago fellow forum member Icelander posted links to audio files where the audio files seemed to prove his thought that RealTrack backing tracks were influenced by the song melody.
I consider the algorithms Band-in-a-Box uses as a form of artificial intelligence because the software is making musical decisions based on melodic song structure.
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I consider the algorithms Band-in-a-Box uses as a form of artificial intelligence because the software is making musical decisions based on melodic song structure.
Surely that's using some well designed and clever pattern matching algorithms, isn't it? If it was true AI, then BiaB would continue to reason and learn all on its own - it would continually become more and more intelligent. Separately, it wouldn't need 192,000+ RealTracks files and 14,000+ Drums files, because it would be able to produce that music itself using a much smaller array of audio sounds instead or pre-recorded musical extracts. Don't get me wrong, what this system does is exceptional. It is brilliant. But unless it 'learns by itself' and as a result becomes more and more smarter, i.e. creates its own intelligence, it's not AI.
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Don't get me wrong, what this system does is exceptional. It is brilliant. But unless it 'learns by itself' and as a result becomes more and more smarter, i.e. creates its own intelligence, it's not AI.
FWIW I agree with AudioTrack. BiaB is brilliant and exceptional as-is. I also realize that continual progress of the program is required to remain relevant and competitive. However, if/when AI becomes fully embedded in BiaB (and I think at some point it will) that it is implemented in a way that does not diminish or restrict those of us that thrive on human-produced creativity. I for one, do not want a bot making my creative decisions for me. One approach to accomplish this is a user-selectable switch that enables or disables AI bot assistance.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I hadn't thought about the learning to improve. What AudioTrack says makes sense to me.
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To differentiate AI vs algorithm based things, think about it this way.
If you buy a software chess game for your computer, and when you start beating it like a drum it learns how well you play and plays better to level the field, that is AI.
When you have software that generates music based on loops assigned to styles (algorithm), that is not AI because it isn't learning to anticipate your expectations and adapting to your tastes to create better music.
If you pick a soloist and generate solos, there may be many options that the software can create, but those options will be finite. When you play a 48 number lottery, there are 12,271,512 of 6 numbers. That's a lot yeah, but it IS finite.
So if you are willing to spend $12,271,512 and spend the time to write out betting tickets for 12,271,512 combinations, you will win the lottery. I just hope that jackpot is at least $12,271,513.
I am not even close to good enough at math to calculate the number of combinations of all the thousands of styles and chord progressions, but it WILL be finite. Maybe hundreds of millions, but finite.
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This graphic is how I boil down this subject. It's all about how much personal creativity we have pushed into any given song. We and everyone else is sitting somewhere on this spectrum for any song we have or will produce. So on the extreme left of the spectrum we have "Cave People Joe and Jane" who first figured out that banging a stick onto a tree and singing to it was fun. There is no greater creativity. They invented their instrument and they were influenced by no other cave people because they were the first. On the extreme right you have "write me a song" spoken into an AI program or you have outright stolen the song; thereby achieving no creativity at all. Any creativity that does exists in this case is from the people who wrote the stolen song and/or the AI technology used. I would say that most of us are in Zone 2, 3 or 4. I hope I never end up in 5. And sorry . . . it's too late to bang a stick on a tree and claim credit I think I'm firmly in the GREEN zone.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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When you play a 48 number lottery, there are 12,271,512 of 6 numbers.
I'm not confirming your result. How did you arrive at 12,271,512? What formula did you use?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Can someone please ask ChatGPT this for me and report back: How do I get someone to listen to my new song 1,000,000 times on Spotify and buy it 1,000,000 times on Amazon or iTunes? Please give precise instructions and links. If it gives you a good answer please post that here and then I will look into using it. Hey thanks y'all. Gotta run!!!
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So if you are willing to spend $12,271,512 and spend the time to write out betting tickets for 12,271,512 combinations, you will win the lottery. Or perhaps share the win with one or more others 
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Also, if you can fill out one set of numbers per minute, never sleeping, it would take you 23 years to hit every combination.
1 2 3 4 5 6
1 2 3 4 5 7
1 2 3 4 5 8
1 2 3 4 5 9
Etc. 12,271,512 times.
Thumper ask Google how many combinations of 6 numbers there are in 48 numbers.
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Can someone please ask ChatGPT this for me and report back: How do I get someone to listen to my new song 1,000,000 times on Spotify and buy it 1,000,000 times on Amazon or iTunes? Please give precise instructions and links. If it gives you a good answer please post that here and then I will look into using it. Hey thanks y'all. Gotta run!!! Exactly what this thread needed! J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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