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There is a fundamental difference between BIAB and AI. AI can change its outputs based on new inputs, while an algorithm (BIAB) always generates the same output for a given input.
So, no, BIAB has no AI involved that I am aware of.
I'm not trying to start a war, I just trying to understand.If you think there is no skill or creativity involved in generating an AI song, make one in Synthesizer V using BIAB for the backing track and post it.
At some point in the future, perhaps we will be able to describe what we want to hear, and a hit a button and a song will result. That is not today.
Actually, I think much better AI software will require even more skill and creativity to use and get good results.
Billy
I don't care what it is but if it gets more people interested in making and understanding music then I'm all for it.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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[quote=Planobilly]There is a fundamental difference between BIAB and AI. AI can change its outputs based on new inputs, while an algorithm (BIAB) always generates the same output for a given input.
So, no, BIAB has no AI involved that I am aware of.
I'm not trying to start a war, I just trying to understand.[quote=Planobilly] Mario, I could be wrong here but from what I know and have seen in BiaB, it does not contain AI. You can easily get different outputs when given the same inputs from simple look-up (sequential) tables where execution 1 uses value 1, execution 2 uses value 2, etc. Or you can achieve different outputs from stochastic methods (sampling from a probability distribution such as a bell curve).
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I very much doubt that BiaB currently has any of its own integrated AI. The program has sequences of predefined patterns which it can cleverly join in multiple different random ways to provide a neat result.
Each new generation uses a combination of the same or different patterns in perhaps a different sequence to produce a different result.
Artificial Intelligence on the other hand is the simulation of human intelligence processes by machines.
I really don't believe that BiaB simulates human intelligence. I think it provides innovative pattern matching techniques.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Perhaps this is a short clip of where BIAB already is with the use of AI. This is a short experimental clip generated out of BIAB using both BIAB as a backing track and a BIAB vocal converted to a midi to provide the vocal melody for the AI. This has not been mixed and has only been modified through pitch correction. There is a large amount of control that can be used in both programs. https://soundcloud.com/planobillydfw-89880386/test-take-fiveWhat generally happens as technologies mature there is better/easier integration. To answer the original question, "where is BIAB going", there is only one likely answer. They will go where they must go to stay profitable. To further confuse the issue of AI-generated vocals, not all vocals from Synthesizer V are AI-generated. Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Artificial Intelligence (AI) is an umbrella term for computer software that mimics human cognition in order to perform complex tasks and learn from them. Machine learning (ML) is a subfield of AI that uses algorithms trained on data to produce adaptable models that can perform a variety of complex tasks.
Clear as mud.
Just remember if we don't want the machines to take over, don't build them in the first place.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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I suppose if I wanted to write a song, AI could do it for me.
I've tried writing, and for me, the lyrics always sound trite and corny, a lame repetition of what others have written. AI could probably do it that well.
But I'm not really a songwriter. I am a musician, I play music, I interpret music, I arrange music, I improvise over chord changes, I get into that zone where there is no me, no thought, just the music flowing through me, and it's the most fun I can have with my clothes on.
Why would I want AI to do that?
So if someone writes a song with AI that I like, I'll be happy to reinterpret it, and play an improvised solo section.
I really don't know if BiaB technically qualifies as AI or not. I do know that I can plug some chords into BiaB, choose a style, pick up my sax, and have a backing band around when I want to try something out.
Plus, I know that I can load the chord changes to a song, and choose many different styles to hear what it sounds like as a Reggae, Blues, Swing, Funk, or any other style song.
I don't think this is something that ChatGPT is going to do for me anytime soon.
I truly feel that almost every musician would benefit from having these three tools: A sequencer/DAW, Band-in-a-Box, and a full-blown notation program. Perhaps someday a fourth essential tool might be added to that list, and it might be something like ChatGPT.
But like the electric guitar, never replaced acoustic guitars, Sousaphones never replaced tubas, and synthesizers never replaced pianos, I think AI will simply add something new to our choices.
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Mario, I could be wrong here but from what I know and have seen in BiaB, it does not contain AI. You can easily get different outputs when given the same inputs from simple look-up (sequential) tables where execution 1 uses value 1, execution 2 uses value 2, etc. Or you can achieve different outputs from stochastic methods (sampling from a probability distribution such as a bell curve).
Thanx Steve for that info. As long as I can make music with BiaB I don't care what is under the hood.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Firstly, I'm an old guy but I've enjoyed tech things since I was a kid when taking apart radios and building Heatkits. I find AI fascinating and not, as many, threatening. However Biab is so multifaceted that in general it IMHO must be considered within the context of the user. And this is from a guys who loves BiaB but uses a tiny percentage of its capabilities. AI providing a backing track and vocals per request is one thing. Another is sitting at a DAW comping up multiple generations of RT's, MST's and RD's to support your song. And pitching shift RT's notes to segue as you like into vocals, tags, etc. And then mixing it all to your likes. You and your hmmmmm ... isn't that based on your experiences, your likes and dislikes, your definitions of feeling and soul? So perhaps you could end up with an AI product some or perhaps many folks like. But would you? OK I do understand that with the development of ChatGPT, etc., you might be able to talk with AI for hours or days until is understood you and what you want. Oh, wait a minute, I think I read this morning that Bing with incorporated ChatGPT is bombing out after a longish session and even making insulting comments, etc. Yeah we are on the cusp and so much more is to come. Of course that view often seems to assume no limits or long stalls … all of which have occurred with many other technologies.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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A few years ago fellow forum member Icelander posted links to audio files where the audio files seemed to prove his thought that RealTrack backing tracks were influenced by the song melody.
I consider the algorithms Band-in-a-Box uses as a form of artificial intelligence because the software is making musical decisions based on melodic song structure.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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I consider the algorithms Band-in-a-Box uses as a form of artificial intelligence because the software is making musical decisions based on melodic song structure.
Surely that's using some well designed and clever pattern matching algorithms, isn't it? If it was true AI, then BiaB would continue to reason and learn all on its own - it would continually become more and more intelligent. Separately, it wouldn't need 192,000+ RealTracks files and 14,000+ Drums files, because it would be able to produce that music itself using a much smaller array of audio sounds instead or pre-recorded musical extracts. Don't get me wrong, what this system does is exceptional. It is brilliant. But unless it 'learns by itself' and as a result becomes more and more smarter, i.e. creates its own intelligence, it's not AI.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Don't get me wrong, what this system does is exceptional. It is brilliant. But unless it 'learns by itself' and as a result becomes more and more smarter, i.e. creates its own intelligence, it's not AI.
FWIW I agree with AudioTrack. BiaB is brilliant and exceptional as-is. I also realize that continual progress of the program is required to remain relevant and competitive. However, if/when AI becomes fully embedded in BiaB (and I think at some point it will) that it is implemented in a way that does not diminish or restrict those of us that thrive on human-produced creativity. I for one, do not want a bot making my creative decisions for me. One approach to accomplish this is a user-selectable switch that enables or disables AI bot assistance.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I hadn't thought about the learning to improve. What AudioTrack says makes sense to me.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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To differentiate AI vs algorithm based things, think about it this way.
If you buy a software chess game for your computer, and when you start beating it like a drum it learns how well you play and plays better to level the field, that is AI.
When you have software that generates music based on loops assigned to styles (algorithm), that is not AI because it isn't learning to anticipate your expectations and adapting to your tastes to create better music.
If you pick a soloist and generate solos, there may be many options that the software can create, but those options will be finite. When you play a 48 number lottery, there are 12,271,512 of 6 numbers. That's a lot yeah, but it IS finite.
So if you are willing to spend $12,271,512 and spend the time to write out betting tickets for 12,271,512 combinations, you will win the lottery. I just hope that jackpot is at least $12,271,513.
I am not even close to good enough at math to calculate the number of combinations of all the thousands of styles and chord progressions, but it WILL be finite. Maybe hundreds of millions, but finite.
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This graphic is how I boil down this subject. It's all about how much personal creativity we have pushed into any given song. We and everyone else is sitting somewhere on this spectrum for any song we have or will produce. So on the extreme left of the spectrum we have "Cave People Joe and Jane" who first figured out that banging a stick onto a tree and singing to it was fun. There is no greater creativity. They invented their instrument and they were influenced by no other cave people because they were the first. On the extreme right you have "write me a song" spoken into an AI program or you have outright stolen the song; thereby achieving no creativity at all. Any creativity that does exists in this case is from the people who wrote the stolen song and/or the AI technology used. I would say that most of us are in Zone 2, 3 or 4. I hope I never end up in 5. And sorry . . . it's too late to bang a stick on a tree and claim credit I think I'm firmly in the GREEN zone.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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When you play a 48 number lottery, there are 12,271,512 of 6 numbers.
I'm not confirming your result. How did you arrive at 12,271,512? What formula did you use?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Can someone please ask ChatGPT this for me and report back: How do I get someone to listen to my new song 1,000,000 times on Spotify and buy it 1,000,000 times on Amazon or iTunes? Please give precise instructions and links. If it gives you a good answer please post that here and then I will look into using it. Hey thanks y'all. Gotta run!!!
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So if you are willing to spend $12,271,512 and spend the time to write out betting tickets for 12,271,512 combinations, you will win the lottery. Or perhaps share the win with one or more others 
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Also, if you can fill out one set of numbers per minute, never sleeping, it would take you 23 years to hit every combination.
1 2 3 4 5 6
1 2 3 4 5 7
1 2 3 4 5 8
1 2 3 4 5 9
Etc. 12,271,512 times.
Thumper ask Google how many combinations of 6 numbers there are in 48 numbers.
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Can someone please ask ChatGPT this for me and report back: How do I get someone to listen to my new song 1,000,000 times on Spotify and buy it 1,000,000 times on Amazon or iTunes? Please give precise instructions and links. If it gives you a good answer please post that here and then I will look into using it. Hey thanks y'all. Gotta run!!! Exactly what this thread needed! J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Holiday Weekend Hours
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Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
Update to RealBand® 2025 Build 5 Windows Today!
Already using RealBand® 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 5 now from our Support Page to ensure you have the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Get the latest update today!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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