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There is a fundamental difference between BIAB and AI. AI can change its outputs based on new inputs, while an algorithm (BIAB) always generates the same output for a given input.
So, no, BIAB has no AI involved that I am aware of.
I'm not trying to start a war, I just trying to understand.If you think there is no skill or creativity involved in generating an AI song, make one in Synthesizer V using BIAB for the backing track and post it.
At some point in the future, perhaps we will be able to describe what we want to hear, and a hit a button and a song will result. That is not today.
Actually, I think much better AI software will require even more skill and creativity to use and get good results.
Billy
I don't care what it is but if it gets more people interested in making and understanding music then I'm all for it.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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[quote=Planobilly]There is a fundamental difference between BIAB and AI. AI can change its outputs based on new inputs, while an algorithm (BIAB) always generates the same output for a given input.
So, no, BIAB has no AI involved that I am aware of.
I'm not trying to start a war, I just trying to understand.[quote=Planobilly] Mario, I could be wrong here but from what I know and have seen in BiaB, it does not contain AI. You can easily get different outputs when given the same inputs from simple look-up (sequential) tables where execution 1 uses value 1, execution 2 uses value 2, etc. Or you can achieve different outputs from stochastic methods (sampling from a probability distribution such as a bell curve).
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I very much doubt that BiaB currently has any of its own integrated AI. The program has sequences of predefined patterns which it can cleverly join in multiple different random ways to provide a neat result.
Each new generation uses a combination of the same or different patterns in perhaps a different sequence to produce a different result.
Artificial Intelligence on the other hand is the simulation of human intelligence processes by machines.
I really don't believe that BiaB simulates human intelligence. I think it provides innovative pattern matching techniques.
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Perhaps this is a short clip of where BIAB already is with the use of AI. This is a short experimental clip generated out of BIAB using both BIAB as a backing track and a BIAB vocal converted to a midi to provide the vocal melody for the AI. This has not been mixed and has only been modified through pitch correction. There is a large amount of control that can be used in both programs. https://soundcloud.com/planobillydfw-89880386/test-take-fiveWhat generally happens as technologies mature there is better/easier integration. To answer the original question, "where is BIAB going", there is only one likely answer. They will go where they must go to stay profitable. To further confuse the issue of AI-generated vocals, not all vocals from Synthesizer V are AI-generated. Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Artificial Intelligence (AI) is an umbrella term for computer software that mimics human cognition in order to perform complex tasks and learn from them. Machine learning (ML) is a subfield of AI that uses algorithms trained on data to produce adaptable models that can perform a variety of complex tasks.
Clear as mud.
Just remember if we don't want the machines to take over, don't build them in the first place.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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I suppose if I wanted to write a song, AI could do it for me.
I've tried writing, and for me, the lyrics always sound trite and corny, a lame repetition of what others have written. AI could probably do it that well.
But I'm not really a songwriter. I am a musician, I play music, I interpret music, I arrange music, I improvise over chord changes, I get into that zone where there is no me, no thought, just the music flowing through me, and it's the most fun I can have with my clothes on.
Why would I want AI to do that?
So if someone writes a song with AI that I like, I'll be happy to reinterpret it, and play an improvised solo section.
I really don't know if BiaB technically qualifies as AI or not. I do know that I can plug some chords into BiaB, choose a style, pick up my sax, and have a backing band around when I want to try something out.
Plus, I know that I can load the chord changes to a song, and choose many different styles to hear what it sounds like as a Reggae, Blues, Swing, Funk, or any other style song.
I don't think this is something that ChatGPT is going to do for me anytime soon.
I truly feel that almost every musician would benefit from having these three tools: A sequencer/DAW, Band-in-a-Box, and a full-blown notation program. Perhaps someday a fourth essential tool might be added to that list, and it might be something like ChatGPT.
But like the electric guitar, never replaced acoustic guitars, Sousaphones never replaced tubas, and synthesizers never replaced pianos, I think AI will simply add something new to our choices.
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Mario, I could be wrong here but from what I know and have seen in BiaB, it does not contain AI. You can easily get different outputs when given the same inputs from simple look-up (sequential) tables where execution 1 uses value 1, execution 2 uses value 2, etc. Or you can achieve different outputs from stochastic methods (sampling from a probability distribution such as a bell curve).
Thanx Steve for that info. As long as I can make music with BiaB I don't care what is under the hood.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
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Firstly, I'm an old guy but I've enjoyed tech things since I was a kid when taking apart radios and building Heatkits. I find AI fascinating and not, as many, threatening. However Biab is so multifaceted that in general it IMHO must be considered within the context of the user. And this is from a guys who loves BiaB but uses a tiny percentage of its capabilities. AI providing a backing track and vocals per request is one thing. Another is sitting at a DAW comping up multiple generations of RT's, MST's and RD's to support your song. And pitching shift RT's notes to segue as you like into vocals, tags, etc. And then mixing it all to your likes. You and your hmmmmm ... isn't that based on your experiences, your likes and dislikes, your definitions of feeling and soul? So perhaps you could end up with an AI product some or perhaps many folks like. But would you? OK I do understand that with the development of ChatGPT, etc., you might be able to talk with AI for hours or days until is understood you and what you want. Oh, wait a minute, I think I read this morning that Bing with incorporated ChatGPT is bombing out after a longish session and even making insulting comments, etc. Yeah we are on the cusp and so much more is to come. Of course that view often seems to assume no limits or long stalls … all of which have occurred with many other technologies.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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A few years ago fellow forum member Icelander posted links to audio files where the audio files seemed to prove his thought that RealTrack backing tracks were influenced by the song melody.
I consider the algorithms Band-in-a-Box uses as a form of artificial intelligence because the software is making musical decisions based on melodic song structure.
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I consider the algorithms Band-in-a-Box uses as a form of artificial intelligence because the software is making musical decisions based on melodic song structure.
Surely that's using some well designed and clever pattern matching algorithms, isn't it? If it was true AI, then BiaB would continue to reason and learn all on its own - it would continually become more and more intelligent. Separately, it wouldn't need 192,000+ RealTracks files and 14,000+ Drums files, because it would be able to produce that music itself using a much smaller array of audio sounds instead or pre-recorded musical extracts. Don't get me wrong, what this system does is exceptional. It is brilliant. But unless it 'learns by itself' and as a result becomes more and more smarter, i.e. creates its own intelligence, it's not AI.
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Don't get me wrong, what this system does is exceptional. It is brilliant. But unless it 'learns by itself' and as a result becomes more and more smarter, i.e. creates its own intelligence, it's not AI.
FWIW I agree with AudioTrack. BiaB is brilliant and exceptional as-is. I also realize that continual progress of the program is required to remain relevant and competitive. However, if/when AI becomes fully embedded in BiaB (and I think at some point it will) that it is implemented in a way that does not diminish or restrict those of us that thrive on human-produced creativity. I for one, do not want a bot making my creative decisions for me. One approach to accomplish this is a user-selectable switch that enables or disables AI bot assistance.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I hadn't thought about the learning to improve. What AudioTrack says makes sense to me.
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To differentiate AI vs algorithm based things, think about it this way.
If you buy a software chess game for your computer, and when you start beating it like a drum it learns how well you play and plays better to level the field, that is AI.
When you have software that generates music based on loops assigned to styles (algorithm), that is not AI because it isn't learning to anticipate your expectations and adapting to your tastes to create better music.
If you pick a soloist and generate solos, there may be many options that the software can create, but those options will be finite. When you play a 48 number lottery, there are 12,271,512 of 6 numbers. That's a lot yeah, but it IS finite.
So if you are willing to spend $12,271,512 and spend the time to write out betting tickets for 12,271,512 combinations, you will win the lottery. I just hope that jackpot is at least $12,271,513.
I am not even close to good enough at math to calculate the number of combinations of all the thousands of styles and chord progressions, but it WILL be finite. Maybe hundreds of millions, but finite.
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This graphic is how I boil down this subject. It's all about how much personal creativity we have pushed into any given song. We and everyone else is sitting somewhere on this spectrum for any song we have or will produce. So on the extreme left of the spectrum we have "Cave People Joe and Jane" who first figured out that banging a stick onto a tree and singing to it was fun. There is no greater creativity. They invented their instrument and they were influenced by no other cave people because they were the first. On the extreme right you have "write me a song" spoken into an AI program or you have outright stolen the song; thereby achieving no creativity at all. Any creativity that does exists in this case is from the people who wrote the stolen song and/or the AI technology used. I would say that most of us are in Zone 2, 3 or 4. I hope I never end up in 5. And sorry . . . it's too late to bang a stick on a tree and claim credit I think I'm firmly in the GREEN zone.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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When you play a 48 number lottery, there are 12,271,512 of 6 numbers.
I'm not confirming your result. How did you arrive at 12,271,512? What formula did you use?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Can someone please ask ChatGPT this for me and report back: How do I get someone to listen to my new song 1,000,000 times on Spotify and buy it 1,000,000 times on Amazon or iTunes? Please give precise instructions and links. If it gives you a good answer please post that here and then I will look into using it. Hey thanks y'all. Gotta run!!!
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So if you are willing to spend $12,271,512 and spend the time to write out betting tickets for 12,271,512 combinations, you will win the lottery. Or perhaps share the win with one or more others 
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Win 10 Professional, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
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Also, if you can fill out one set of numbers per minute, never sleeping, it would take you 23 years to hit every combination.
1 2 3 4 5 6
1 2 3 4 5 7
1 2 3 4 5 8
1 2 3 4 5 9
Etc. 12,271,512 times.
Thumper ask Google how many combinations of 6 numbers there are in 48 numbers.
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Can someone please ask ChatGPT this for me and report back: How do I get someone to listen to my new song 1,000,000 times on Spotify and buy it 1,000,000 times on Amazon or iTunes? Please give precise instructions and links. If it gives you a good answer please post that here and then I will look into using it. Hey thanks y'all. Gotta run!!! Exactly what this thread needed! J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
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Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
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Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
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Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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