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If you were charged by Peter Gannon to come up with a one year, five year or ten year plan for PG Music to follow what would it be? User Musocity +++ mentioned +++ Why can't this all be done in the DAW with the BBPlugin ? that should be the aim of PG. his belief PG Music should be concentrating on the Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) plugin to support working in a DAW. User MusicVillian states his belief +++ HERE +++ that The longer you stay in Band-in-a-Box the more you can utilize it's resources. The instant you render and create a scalar track to move out of Band-in-a-Box you lose ALL the unique resources the program offers. If you want to change anything you can always go back but that's starting over and losing all your preceding work. There is no right or wrong and both workflows can be accommodated at the present time but what about PG Music's plan for the future? Where should PG Music spend it's development resources?
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RB <grin>
Last edited by rharv; 02/25/23 11:20 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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jim.
all my dreams are in the wishlists for rb n' bb.
so i wont bore people by repeating.lol.
whether flac or some other non wav format.. m4a i think was mentioned by DR G. particularly i would love to see rb more nimble useing such an alternative.
any solution to waiting for waveforms to draw.
the new bb 23 ive been playing with l'm really happy with the near instant genn times i'm getting.
super duper.
happiness
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/25/23 11:44 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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PG Music should aim mainly to stay profitable, which means developing BIAB towards where their market and customers are heading.
MacMini M1 - BIAB2021 - Logic Pro X - iZotope Music Production Suite - Scaler 2 - far too many Waves plugins and Line 6 Guitars and boards + a fantastic Yamaha THR10ll mini Amp - Avid MBOX Studio
Peters' Garage is available on all major streaming services
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all my dreams are in the wishlists for rb n' bb so i wont bore people by repeating.lol. PG Music should aim mainly to stay profitable, which means developing BIAB towards where their market and customers are heading. So no thoughts about a 1 year, 5 year or 10 year plan for PG Music? Rharv, how should RealBand fit in PG Music's future 1, 5 or 10 years from now? Justanolmuso should your suggestions be implemented next release, within 5 years or even later? Peter's Garage, PG Music can solicit feedback yearly as it attends the NAMM show in California. They also have a robust international distribution network to provide marketing feedback. Assume that while PG Music is taking advantage of these resources they are also seeking input from forum members to formulate long range plans. My experience is a one year plan has pretty specific goals while five and ten year plans are more about what resources will be needed, what improvements made and new features developed?
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Jim.
1..RE….Justanolmuso should your suggestions be implemented next release, within 5 years or even later?
my answer.
as i dont know what the internals of bb/rb are at the code level…i cant address that intelligently. all i can dream is for both bb n' rb be as nimble as possible.
(note so far really pleased with how nimble bb 23 is. but i'm in early tests.)
and as you know i would love to see a lossless environment for recording//playback//mixing in both rb n' bb.
2..RE… PG generally.
i like to support the 'little guy'. i'm a 'romantic' at heart..lol.
in the pg case i'm married to a canadian beauty so i'm sorta biased to wanting to see pg's continued success as a cdn company. so i post wishes.
(a bit of levity…if asked why she chose me…she says... 'well i met the big oaf in winter and i think i had a brain freeze at the time'...lol)
overall i DO think pg should move as quickly as they can with further product development in case one of the big money daw companies decides to get into pg's market etc.
(this comment is from my time years back as a tech product mgr. ie its all strategic aspects.)
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/26/23 04:41 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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There is a lot that could be changed in a 1, 5, and 10-year plans. Here are a few ideas off of the top of my head:
1-a complete rewrite that includes all time signatures, streamlined menus, and a modern interface/GUI.
2-If no rewrite is in the future then streamline menus, like how many copy and paste options do we really need?
3-Become more like other software. By that I mean things like the horizontal bar in notation, the one like all other software has, except BiaB's doesn't work. You have to click on the little arrows.
3-Have the VST include all of the options in the standalone version of BiaB and when one does MIDI it doesn't clog up your HD with an audio version. This would combine both the Mac and Win versions of BiaB.
4-If #3 is implemented then do the same with RB, thus eliminate BiaB stand-alone completely.
5-Have multiple versions of BiaB, one for MIDI including all charts and MST, one for RTs and RDs, and one for both.
6-Have chord progression templates like rock, blues, jazz, new age, etc. The templates would be various chord progressions in each genre, i.e. 12 bar blues, 16 bar blues. Choose a template and the chords in the key of C would be implemented in BiaB where you would choose a key signature and style. This might help new musicians or musicians with limited chord progression knowledge.
7-Modernize all graphics and change the name to something like The Musicians Ultimate Accompaniment Software.
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Why can't this all be done in the DAW with the BBPlugin ? that should be the aim of PG. The longer you stay in Band-in-a-Box the more you can utilize it's resources. FWIW, I don't see a fundamental conflict between the two views for songwriting. If the BBPlugin does the right things in the right way, one can "stay in BiaB" whilst also being in a DAW. Where I do see a potential conflict would be if the consequence of a DAW-centric plugin broke the way I mostly use BiaB, and the way for which I believe it was originally conceived ... as a pseudo-band for me to play along with for practice. But I reckon that would not be broken, provided the BiaB-standalone supports that use case.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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…
FWIW, I don't see a fundamental conflict between the two views for songwriting.
If the BBPlugin does the right things in the right way, one can "stay in BiaB" whilst also being in a DAW.
…
Something like that—no disagreement in any case. I have never used BIAB for my own projects—maybe, someday but not yet. I bought it for clients who want to do vanity projects and have made a nice little side gig from it. Sometimes, projects get larger and, for that, the DAW plug-in is nice. Although I understand why RealBand for the Mac never existed, it would have been nice for me. The DAW plug has superseded the need—sorta' kinda' but RB would still be nice to have. Not holding my breath. Mario's suggestions are well thought out and I can see their usefulness in the long run but I don't have a real problem with the way things are — assuming that the Mac version catches up with the Win in 2023.
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Mario's idea list is more like the responses I hoped for when starting this thread. Unifying the Mac & Windows versions into one release is a great example of a goal that likely will take more than one year to implement. A good time to combine the Windows and Mac version would be during a code re-write. I can also see that as a five year goal. The two versions sharing more features each year might be a stopgap measure until a consolidated version written in new code is released. A good example of a one year goal is to streamline menus. I find Gordon's comment intriguing. If the BBPlugin does the right things in the right way, one can "stay in BiaB" whilst also being in a DAW. What's the right things in the right way? What are the minimum specifications the DAW plugin should meet?
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Jim, In my opinion best approach is taken with Steinberg's Halion Which has two components: Halion, which has very deep features and smaller brother Sonic - a light weight plugin (or standalone) that can do many things Halion can, without deep editing features. In theory, sure BIAB can become "all in one solution" without the need of "separate" DAW, and the Plugin could be used in the 3rd party DAW of choice with less of deep features. But a lot of work needed to make BIAB a DAW like program. No matter how close it can get to DAW workflow, it is very different in many ways, so it would require different kind of thinking in making the best of DAW like features integrated well with very specific BIAB features. Ok.... "If you were charged by Peter Gannon to come up with a one year, five year or ten year plan " One year plan - BIAB: Major cleanup which can start with: 1 Start integrating non-modal pop up box menus into the workflow and eliminating those modal boxes (not leaving them as a secondary "way") An example would be current Partial regeneration Modal and Non-modal box menus. 2 Consolidation, clear wording and position (priority) of Menus 3 Addressing known long standing issues (for example 255 bar limit, working with MIDI patterns, etc.) 4 GUI. Start thinking about making elements modular. High resolution icons and Dark theme. Touch audio / midi track navigation. 5 If 255 bar limit is broken, would start development of User Track console, which would accept complete template in a single BIAB session. End goal: User Track wizard / assistant for RTs or MIDI. Plugin: Stability across different DAWs and Compatibility with files shared between BIAB -> Plugin and wise versa. RTs/MIDIs: Less of what is recorded, more of what is not. Five year plan... That is a tough one. I will Try  Most of internal code is updated: instant RT playback accommodation of all time signatures, GUI is well established and accepted by most: Fully customizable, resizable and modular. Universal picker for all creative content. A single place / librarian. Full DAW features, with no track limit. Changing WMAs to FLAC or similar. Chord / structure theory assistant. Integration with future plugins, that may include AI. Distribute 24 bit Audio Bug tracking system. Plugin: Sold as a separate entity Instant playback Live Arranger Hardware Live arranger module RTs/MIDI/styles and other content sorted in a way, so it does not create confusion. Expanding on current idea: "What add-ons I have" Ten year plan..... Jim this is getting hard... Flexibility. Being able to adopt easily to people's needs, yet being able to surprise with some features not available anywhere else. Record world class musicians. Phew... that is short of it.
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I find Gordon's comment intriguing. If the BBPlugin does the right things in the right way, one can "stay in BiaB" whilst also being in a DAW. What's the right things in the right way? What are the minimum specifications the DAW plugin should meet? I'm afraid I'm going to duck that, at least for the present, because I don't presently use BiaB as a songwriting tool. In a way, it's for PGM and the interested users explore, distill and refine. I don't often do 'slopey shoulders', but I make an exception here.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Where should PG Music spend it's development resources? Staff pizza. What more can I say that I haven't already said a couple of times over 14 years. Vector vs Scalar
The most important part of core technology in BiaB is the vector generation. Vectors are location addresses pointing to the source material (RealTracks & RealDrums), aka the green colored style tracks. Because each vector track is just a collection of link addresses, it is light-weighted, fast processing, and can be regenerated easily, most ideally to work with.
BiaB Track Injector
It is a genius idea to utilize the vector technology of BiaB. Why is Biab allowed to generate quick but the BBPlugin and RealBand are not allowed to do that ? Why can't Biab tracks be opened instantly in Reaper with one click ? as it's the most easiest thing of all to implement right now. The plug-in has been rewritten from scratch, and became self-contained, which means bridging to the main application is not needed anymore (which proved to be fragile in some cases).
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There is no right or wrong and both workflows can be accommodated at the present time but what about PG Music's plan for the future? Where should PG Music spend it's development resources?
There are some great DAWs and they have become a pretty common tool among recording musicians and songwriters. As such, putting resources into RealBand doesn't make a lot of sense. Sonar is free, Reaper is $65, and they are both great. No reason to reinvent the wheel. I use BIAB both as a standalone and as a plugin and am glad it can do both. It's a bit of a champaign problem that I have with the style picker. After trying to filter I still have such a giant list of styles to sort through that it takes up a lot of time. Maybe it's just a user error on my part, perhaps I am missing something.
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Frankp/All.
even tho' ive loved reaper from its inception i personally dont want to see rb disappear. because it has some features i havent seen in any other daw.
(see the loooong menu in rb.) that i find v useful .
yes there are rb features i would like, and have suggested in the rb wish forum.
but lets remember rb IS free. and in fact with just a few added features imho would be the daw market leader. (maybe i'm a hopeless romantic…lol i always root for the underdog.)
yes rb is a tad 'ugly' but if one takes time to delve under the hood and really persists for some time..and develop ones own work methods there is lots to like.
i just want to see rb continue.
happiness n' have a great 2023.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/28/23 02:25 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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The best way to keep RB going is donate it to an enthusiastic Delphi programmers club where lots can chip in and add these features.
PG's numero uno enthusiasm is Biab. The Plugin and RealBand are just way behind in development and love.
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The combination of RealBand and BIAB because they are linked together is a set-up that is ideal for beginning a recording in RB for any live recording of instruments, vocals, backing vocals and recording multiple inputs then moving the project into BIAB for the final arrangement and then doing a final mix in RB if necessary.
The operation of RealBand and BIAB is very similar to the new hybrid stand alone mixer/recorders like the Tascam Model 12.
BIAB 2026:RB 2026, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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RustySpoon#'s answer was pretty detailed and comprehensive. I find his initial comment interesting: In my opinion best approach is taken with Steinberg's Halion
Which has two components: Halion, which has very deep features and smaller brother Sonic - a light weight plugin (or standalone) that can do many things Halion can, without deep editing features. In theory, sure BIAB can become "all in one solution" without the need of "separate" DAW, and the Plugin could be used in the 3rd party DAW of choice with less of deep features. But a lot of work needed to make BIAB a DAW like program. No matter how close it can get to DAW workflow, it is very different in many ways, so it would require different kind of thinking in making the best of DAW like features integrated well with very specific BIAB features. How does Steinberg's approach differ from what PG Music is doing with the main Band-in-a-Box program and the plugin? The main program has all available features and the plugin is light on features. The main omission I can think of with RustySpoons 1 and 5 year plans is I didn't see anything about merging the Mac and Windows programs into a single cross platform program. Musocity suggests pizza, track injector and more development resources for the plugin and RealBand. FrankP seems to suggest dumping RealBand and develop the (Band-in-a-Box or plugin?) StylePicker. Justanoldmuso wants PG Music to keep RealBand. Charlie Fogle suggests using the combination of RealBand and Band-in-a-Box together to emulate a standalone multi-track recorder. I'm sure the Mac users would like to be able to have RealBand so they could agree. It looks like it's tough to come up with imaginary 1, 5 and 10 year plans. Hard game to play.
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Ok I'll try and restrain so post don't get deleted again.
1. Keep developing Biab but you need to look at crossplatform as too much time is wasted doing Win then doing Mac.
2. The BBPlugin needs to have all the generate code contained within it so it will become a professional VST that can be used professionally in a studio same as Toontracks. If they don't want to do this it serves no purpose as you can drag n drop from Biab, so it should be dropped.
3. RealBand I don't know where the resources will come from to do anything but a few token tweaks as there is no Mac version so it's no fair for them.
There never seems to be any open discussion from PG at all.
I'm not sure if I serve any purpose here if the things I suggest are too advanced and too far into the future. I can't really dumb my thinking down to just look at basic things and remain in that technology period.
I seem to be the only one here that post this stuff yet it's just normal stuff in other forums.
PG might be better to ask "we are looking for a way to improve such n such", then we can pitch in with solutions.
But when you give stuff out and it goes under the radar, you don't serve much purpose and are basically wasting your time here that is physically and emotionally draining if the energy goes nowhere.
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Thanks a lot !
Seems interesting as I often use BiaB to create background tracks for Reaper !
Unfortunately the BiaB Plugin (Widows 2022 and 2023) in most cases does not work for me. E.g. it creates half a track, the rest filled with silence. Exporting Audio from BiaB works perfectly, though. What did I just say about dragging from Biab ? then I go to the Reaper forum as I posted the RT to SFZ there. Yet I'm always the bad guy.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
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202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
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