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OK my before inflation two cents:
Although I quit trying to use the VST I still see it as the future for PGM. It would solve having two different programs, i.e. one for each OS. It is also a chance for PGM to modernize its product. BUT the VST would have to include all of the base BiaB features while adding other features like all time signatures, making all tracks equal, etc.
I would be happy for a year or two to purchase only RTs with notation and RDs while PGM works on the VST.
With a new VST RealBand could be eliminated however for those whom want it PGM could resume working on it after the above 1-2 year RT/RD only period. Or PGM could sell it to a third party along with a confidentiality clause.
YMMV
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Somehow, someway it looks like this thread has ticked off almost everyone.
There is LOTS of discussion about RealBand or the lack thereof for Mac. There is LOTS of negative comments about the GUI interface.
Interspersed with all the negative are some REALLY GOOD suggestions. My hope is PG Music will read this thread and gain an understanding about what user priorities are and what timeline we believe it will take to achieve these plans.
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Mr Geeze/ALL.
although i'm a win user who just got a new ryzen 7 mini pc (m.2ssd + 16 g) that has elated me so far (the next year will tell) for peanuts…for the first time…i'm very interested in apples offerings due to the apple M processors…(kudos to apple..)..
and am considering a m2 mini (prolly a refurb when the market goes m3/4.)..BUT .from my tech background i know 2 things.
1..amd and intel won't take losing market share without a fight, they WILL respond.
2..Apple has some challenges ahead due to limitations of semiconductor physics.and i'm very excited to see how they address these limitations as they ramp up future
more powerful M processors. particularly POWER CONSUMPTION AND HEAT.
talk to any semiconductor physicist and the other issue is also a question of how much can be crammed on a processor wafer.
although some here might think i'm biased towards win/amd/intel i really am not.
i'm biased towards computer solutions that offer fantastic price/performance for us poorer souls.
if tomorrow the 100 buk raspberry pi ran at insane speeds using quantum tech i would be all over it. I DO laud apple for this new silicon however.
right now on my new win pc i cant complain cos boot into win from cold or into biab or realband is blinkin fast taking a few secs. in addition genning rt's in biab is practically instant….tiny bit of time compared to my previous intel i5 refurb which was pretty fast.
now of course faster ssd n' memory play their part too.
i would be really interested in hearing from apple m2 users some stats like how to boot into the desktop from cold boot, and how long do logic n' biab take to appear from clicking on their respective icons etc. and how long rt's take to generate.
2 things i would have liked in the m2 mini are…allowing install of 2 m2 ssd's internally plus more hi speed usb ports.
nice ideas Mr G.
ps..re getting rid of realband correct me if i'm wrong but didnt Dr G say recently that exciting things were planned for realband ?? YIPPEE !
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/05/23 08:21 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Question 1: During installation, is there a way not to install RealBand but everything else?
Question 2: If RealBand is not installed, is BiaB going to encounter issues when running?
Reason: I want a clean computer and don't want RealBand installed if I don't plan to use it.
Story: RealBand is the most expensive DAW on earth. RealBand is pricey, not on money, but on time. So much time would be spent on digging and debugging this senile dementia DAW. Better off spend money buying a young and capable DAW than wasting your time on sleepy RB.
A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
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OK my before inflation two cents:
Although I quit trying to use the VST I still see it as the future for PGM. It would solve having two different programs, i.e. one for each OS. It is also a chance for PGM to modernize its product. BUT the VST would have to include all of the base BiaB features while adding other features like all time signatures, making all tracks equal, etc.
I would be happy for a year or two to purchase only RTs with notation and RDs while PGM works on the VST.
With a new VST RealBand could be eliminated however for those whom want it PGM could resume working on it after the above 1-2 year RT/RD only period. Or PGM could sell it to a third party along with a confidentiality clause.
YMMV
Excellent points. +1 Except for the 3rd party sale idea. that rarely ends well for the user base
biab2025(Mac) Latest Build
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See with RealBand they would have to change it to non destructive editing, move the generate code inside RealBand, make a Mac version of RealBand. But if you make a Mac version then it's gonna be the same story as Biab 6 months on Win then 6 months on Mac, that's why I say JUCE just like the VST it's released at the same time for Win and Mac and has identical features. Again I see the VST/VST Standalone cross platform Win,Lin,Mac with the basic features like Mario said, It's a golden opportunity to start Biab all over again in the VST doing it the right way without all the bloated million and 1 features and old code limiting things. After posting all this, I just got this in an email, that has to be a message ! it's like HELLO: But 13 years is a very long time in this industry and we are faced with the fact that the platform that AATranslator is built on is showing its age and as such we are finding it increasingly difficult to support or add features that we know you would like.
The good news is that for the last 18 months we have been re-writing AATranslator (AATranslator2) using a more modern language and a more powerful platform. AATranslator can translate DAW session projects to other DAW's.
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Villain,
Kind of a mixed martial arts comedy routine there, but some if it was funny.
So here is what confuses me. I too will strive to be humorous.
Say you want to WRITE A SONG. You get out your guitar or sit at the piano, sketch out something and then say, hmmmmmm would be great to have some bass and electric. You have BIAB 2023.
Exactly how dumb do you have to be to not be able to find the track menu in BIAB and look for any of 7,000 tracks that might work? And not understand how much easier that is than flying to Nashville to find a band?
Did you trip on the sidewalk as a child and have a pipe go through your head?
BIAB hard????? Too hard for young people??? Ever seen Ableton Live??
Entering in a chord progression and looking for an instrument to go with it is hard? In what grade?? Kindergarten???
Don't see any samples? Ever gone to bandlab.com and looked at the 70,000+ samples (it might be 150,000 by now) you can pull into Real Band if your IQ is at least above 50??
And finally, if Peter Gannon pulled put his wallet and spent 20 Billion dollars, exactly what features would you need in order to produce just ONE song in your lifetime. If he came to your house and generated the tracks for you, would that work, or would you still be complaining that BIAB has an outdated GUI and so you can't possibly write a song. Not yet. Not unless the software is rebuilt from scratch.
Or would there come a day in which you might look longingly in the mirror and say:
"Wow. Maybe the user error is happening inside my own brain."
That was MY joke of the day. Please no one get offended. I am JOKING.
I am being FUNNY.
Trying to make people LAUGH.
No germ of truth to it all.
Promise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@David Snyder
Please relax my friend. Take a deep breath. There is no need to become aggressive. Fact check: You and I share the same ideology.
If you go back to my post and read it again, you will realize there are two colored texts: black and purple. The black colored texts were quotes from other people, and the purple colored texts were actually my opinions.
If you read my post again, and pay attention to the purple texts, you will understand I meant no jokes. All I was saying was this: "BiaB is good as is, and can stay like this for another decade. Don't be ungrateful. No need to demand major changes in the next 5 or 10 years. If young people don't want to use it, that's their problem, they simply don't deserve it."
I think the actual person who hurt your feelings, is a forum user whose name is "JohnJohnJohn", because the black texts in my post were quoted from his/her opinions.
David my friend, please consider sharing your dissatisfaction with JohnJohnJohn. I am a person who is grateful with what BiaB currently is, and I will always be your side.
A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
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EZDrummer 2 was released in 2014 worked great no problems,
EZDrummer 3 was released in 2022.
Can we have that with the BBvst once it's all working good rock solid with the self contained code so we don't have to have added features every year for marketing, just rely on new content marketing:
New EZkeys MIDI pack available now | Synthwave EZkeys MIDI
BACK TO NOSTALGIA. A collection of ’80s-inspired synth sounds for modern pop songwriting.
Acoustic Pop EZkeys MIDI, available now!
Metal EZbass MIDI, available now! | November is Metal Month
Superior September: SDX deals and added value offer | New SDX announcement and more...
Ready to head back to the sixties? New EBX for EZbass, available now!
Also PG can sell their Midi Super Tracks as 3rd Party Toontrack Paks.
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Villain, I thought your post was funny and I liked it. I thought it was clever. I too was trying to be humorous, but it was not directed at you, only referencing your jokes/comments. I call them jokes because I thought they were funny and clever, the way you phrased them. My main point was, "I see people complaining and stuff. But I have never seen a song. Have you opened the box?? Did you look inside? Do you have ONE tune to share?" And the answer always is: Of course not. 
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David Snyder.
yes…you n' i put our songs out there.
(I laud you for doing that david....its obvious you have put an amzaeing number of hours into your songs kudos.)
as my sig says ive done 90 songs using pg's realband n' biab.
and god knows how many ruff demos…ive lost count…loads.
(but maybe people think my songs are 'doodoo'...lol. its just the enjoyment of doing it.)
re realband all i can do is detail little tricks using it i cant do in another daw (correct me if i'm wrong.) mainly due to the trak generation features for soooo many traks.
lets take the following scenario…..i wanna do a 'ruff demo' of a song..before doin' further development. ie wanna see if the song idea 'flys'.
so sometimes what i do as a time saver is lay out the chord sheet in rb n' just generate midi traks.
instead of rt's.
as an aside how many people know in rb midi drum traks can be genned gonzo fast eg using *.dp feature.
so as i have 48 traks i just stay in midi cos i can work fast. the objective being to see how well the song hangs together. ie step 1 is genning midi guide traks.
this also lets me sing against the 'ruff' n' see how well my lyrics hang n' also the song key that my vocs fit best.
if anyone can show me another daw that gens midi traks like rb does…i'm all ears.anyone ??
(and NO i dont mean loooong searches thru' midi pattern libs…which tends to frustrate me due the time it takes…'been there done that'...lol.)
as i said before is rb a tad ugly ? sure. does it sometimes annoy me ? sure…but so does every daw ive ever tried.
in conclusion i wonder how many people have plunged the depths of rb to discover its power.
(i like scuba diving..so for me its like diving around down into the ocean and finding something interesting. )
peace/happiness to all.
om.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/06/23 03:36 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Question 1: During installation, is there a way not to install RealBand but everything else? No. The initial Band-in-a-Box executable file for Windows installs both programs. Update files are program specific. The RealBand folder can be deleted without creating any adverse effects to Band-in-a-Box or the Band-in-a-Box plugin. To safely test this idea, rename the RealBand folder. Everything in Band-in-a-Box will work the same. Question 2: If RealBand is not installed, is BiaB going to encounter issues when running? No. BiaB does not rely on RealBand to do anything.
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There definitely some good points in this thread. But I'm wondering how much of the issues sited have to do with PG trying to make sure that its software runs on outdated machines? Just a thought.
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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There definitely some good points in this thread. But I'm wondering how much of the issues sited have to do with PG trying to make sure that its software runs on outdated machines? Just a thought.
Jeff I'm not sure it is about the fact that "its software runs on outdated machines". I think it is because they are trapped in old code. I think PGM has done some really remarkable things with this old code but IMHO it needs a complete rewrite to stay competing in today's environment. YMMV
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Mountain.
the prob is lots of people // newbs getting into doin' songs start off with an 'old clunker/hand me down pc'..
to 'dip toes in the water'...as it were.
rather than your level i7...n' then wonder why resource heavy need plug ins bring the pc to its knees.
you m' i know whats needed but lots dont...from folks ive helped in the past.
SO the prob if pg says ya gotta use this newer pc config
they might loose lots of revenue.
its a catch 22 i dont see a solution for.
unless than warning the user politely 'this pc is junk'...lol.
we used to have the same prob in industry.
best
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/07/23 03:40 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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You mean like Microsoft saying I can't update my i7 7700K processor to Win 11? I mean it's blazingly fast, allows overclocking and I still can't update it to Win 11?
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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On one of his YouTubes, Rick Beato said most of the very best producers he knows say:
"You will have to wrestle this Windows XP machine out of my cold dead hands.
"Now leave me the %$#@@@ alone. I'm mixing a hit."
I think that was the same video when he threw almost all of his Apple stuff and iPhones into a garbage can and then flipped the bird.
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There needs to be a better ways to implement as it seems to be harder for PG compared to other software to implement improvements. JUCE is the most widely used framework for audio application and plug-in development. It is an open source C++ codebase that can be used to create standalone software on Windows, macOS, Linux, iOS and Android, as well VST, VST3, AU, AUv3, AAX and LV2 plug-ins. I think it is because they are trapped in old code. I think PGM has done some really remarkable things with this old code but IMHO it needs a complete rewrite to stay competing in today's environment. YMMV But 13 years is a very long time in this industry and we are faced with the fact that the platform that AATranslator is built on is showing its age and as such we are finding it increasingly difficult to support or add features that we know you would like.
The good news is that for the last 18 months we have been re-writing AATranslator (AATranslator2) using a more modern language and a more powerful platform. We don’t plan on using JUCE for our existing applications other than plug-ins. Keep the existing ones as they are sure, but once you start moving the generate code into the VST/VST Standalone this will rocket ahead being cross platform giving Mac users the VST and the same time using the same audio format for both. This will be more suitable for Mac Pro Audio users and Win users alike. As I have said I see the VST Standalone the new simple to use cross platform Band In A Box Lite® so a Linux version also while your at it. I really think that's how it will go as you are not spending 6 months on the Win Plugin then 6 months on the Mac Plugin as you do with Biab, it's using cross platform released at the same time, same features Win Lin Mac. That's future proofing, I can't see how the current 6 months Win 6 months Mac will last down the track. They could use JUCE and spend the other 6 months in Hawaiian sunshine.
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Hi Jim,
I think BIAB is perfect right now.
You have lots of options for rendering songs/tracks.
I choose to render multiple takes to .Wav, import into my DAW and do all mixing and mastering there. It gives you so many more creative options.
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
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- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
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- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
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- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
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Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
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Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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