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Hi,
Is this the right forum for a discussion on this topic?
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Majority of the PG community likes Melodyne. There are some folks here who use Antares AutoTune too.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
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I used all of them.
Melodyne is very time consuming, but the end result is natural, transparent, unnoticable, almost like cheating to win.
AutoTune is fast, effortless, but the result is robotic, inaccurate, with lots of artifacts. Graph mode is hard to manipulate. Not a fan.
WavesTune is garbage.
FL Studio NewTone is like Melodyne, but not as good as Melodyne.
Bottomline: In today's highly competitive world, you can not produce professional music without Melodyne.
A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
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Hi Folks, So this is the right place - good. I contribute songs to the "User Showcase" forum on this site and I also listen to all the other songs on that forum. Many of the singers are out of tune. Some of them just a bit out of tune and some of them are total non-singers. For non-singers the answer is obviously to team up with a good singer. For the others the answer may be: 1. Before posting on the forum send your song to a friend/family member who you know has a "good ear" and most importantly is prepared to give you an honest assessment of your performance. They don't have to love the song - no the key point is they must tell you where it needs improvement. Only in this way can you improve the quality of your songs. 2. Pitch Correction. I don't use this myself but I do you use it on other artists' voices whom I have recorded or mixed. If used sparingly and musically then it can definitely improve a performance and a song significantly. I think it can also act as a great vocal learning tool. I'm sure most of you are familiar with Pitch and Timing Correction but if you are new to the subject this video may be a good starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS1YDAc-f5IIs it cheating - no IMHO. I hope this may be of some assistance and look forward to the thoughts of members. Best Regards Nigel Spiers
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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It's a good topic to delve into.
I can't sing so use ReaTune and, sometimes, Melodyne.
Despite the above emphatic vote for Mel. it can be JUST as bad as any other pitch correction software: it's complex and subtilty is easy lost.
Many major studios outsource the "tuning" to pros who do it full time becasue it's easy to lose focus and awareness when in amongst it
It's very easy to produce well recorded and performed tracks in this highly competitive world if you have a singer who is a) good & b) prepared to learn the material properly.
For my part I'd much rather use a singer in collaborative way. I've often done so BUT I know that my songs aren't necessarily attractive to other performers so I, oft times, have to "do it" myself.
I record a scratch "vocal with the phrasing and basic melodic idea as best I can. I then tune it, often aggressively, with ReaTune as well as tweaking the melody and then try to learn the corrected version.
Frequently I get close but not close enough so I tune gently, render the vocal, then tune gently again to try to avoid too may obvious artefacts in the final result.
Tweaking gently in Reatune then copying/pasting that VST in a stack of two or three will also, slightly faster, achieve a gently successful result. Nevertheless. I always hope that some one will hear my final result and offer to sing it for me.
ReaTune is CPU hungry, Melodyne even more so. Also Melodyne is unhappy when in the same project with the likes of PSP Vintage Warmer 2, (another hungry one when set to fat), and can cause crashes.
If one can't really sing & has no access to singer for social or financial reasons I can't see a problem with a tuning prog used well.
Last edited by rayc; 03/07/23 07:26 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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I'm all for the use pitch correction. My feeling is that I should post the best version of the song that I can. Heck, I've even tried to write pitch correction software.  I've used ReaTune, Waves Tune and Melodyne. I've even tried GSnap. Except for it having a much too small GUI, I like the sound of Waves Tune the most, but I'm trying to learn how to be less heavy-handed with Melodyne. RePitch by SynchroArts is supposed to have more transparent pitch correction, but I'm not yet convinced it's that much better than Melodyne. Like rayc, I've often recorded my vocal, and then had a look at it with the pitch correction software to see where I've gone wrong. I'll also use the pitch corrected vocal as a guide track. Now, the more delicate issue: telling someone they're out of tune. One of the great things about this board is how welcoming it can be, especially to people of all levels of skill. Bringing up something like pitch correction requires a level to tact that I often lack. Obviously, it's best done via PM, rather than via post. I did suggest to someone a couple months ago that their song would be a good candidate for showing what pitch correction software could do. He sent me his vocal stems, and I ended up doing a remix of the song. But not everyone is necessarily going to be so gracious. I suspect that most people know they have pitch issues, but don't know about the tools to correct it. I do all my editing in a DAW, and have never tried to do pitch correction in BiaB. And pitch correction software can be intimidating to use. I hate suggesting to people that they spend money that they might not have, or on something that might not fit their tool chain. It would also be great to suggest an option that works well with whatever they've got, be it a DAW, BiaB, RealBand, Audactity. It looks like the top free pitch correction plugins are: - Graillon 2
- MAutoPitch
- GSnap
There's a larger list available here.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Singing is a production in itself. Once I'm psyched up and feel ready, I record several takes - often of the whole song, but sometimes by looping sections depending on the arrangement - and then I Comp in Studio One.
If the Comped vocal is decent, I bounce the Comped vocal to a new track and gently apply Melodyne as needed.
Is that cheating? Well, yeah, I suppose it is, but so what. We apply all kinds of effects to all kinds of sounds in order to present the best quality music we can. The Pros often highlight their 'vocal chains' which are aimed at making the best singers sound even better.
Pitch Correction Plugins? Go for it!
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Hi David,
Yes I completely agree - it's definitely not our job to tell anyone on this forum that they are singing out of tune or are a non-singer.
This is why it's critical for all members to pass their songs by a trusted family member or friend several times and way before it gets to this forum.
They will reply:
1. Does not work - drop it.
or
2. Works:
- Fix vocals at 1:14, 2:10 and 3:30
- Needs a middle 8 for light and shade
- Too long - cut out 1 x verse and 1 x chorus
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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FYIW - Tuning your vocal with pitch correction is no different than tuning your instrument with an electronic tuner. You want everything to be in tune. As you all know I am not a singer but when I do sing I use Melodyne. Sometimes even that doesn't help 
I arrived early to a restaurant.
The manager asks, "do you mind waiting a bit?"
I said no.
"Good", he said. "Take these drinks to table 3"
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Some folks are slightly out of tune sometimes, sure maybe, but also I can tell they are pushing artistic boundaries, creating novel lyrics, possess a great degree of musical originality and are showing a certain genius in composition, while also playing some instruments themselves from time to time.
I would rather hear a person singing an original and compelling composition that is slightly out of tune any day of the week rather than sit through another 12 bar blues progression with a four note melody on the subject of baby just done me mean and I got da down home blues in perfect pitch.
But that's just me.
Reatune is better than some folks say, I actually like Waves Tune, and my favorite is the Pitch Editor that came with old school Nectar 2. I think it may be based on Melodyne, not sure, but it works fine.
However, I am most proud of the people who post who are in the "Bob Dylan" category who write truly original music, great lyrics and great melodies, and can also play an instrument on something as well, whether they can sing in perfect pitch or not.
I would not want them to stop posting and singing for any reason, because then all I would have to listen to is another piece of faux jazz or one more attempt at the 12 bar blues.
YMMV and all the other cute phrases.
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It's probably safe to say that there are few, if any, studio recordings over the past 60 years that haven't used some kind of wizardry to get the production as wanted, whether that be just multiple takes, punch-ins, overdubs, auto-tune or whatever. In that sense I doubt there's been a single studio recording that hasn't 'cheated' in some way.
Most 'live' albums have probably had more than a little post-processing to get them nicer. That's also 'cheating' some.
IMHO, don't worry about it; use the plug-ins.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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It's probably safe to say that there are few, if any, studio recordings over the past 60 years that haven't used some kind of wizardry to get the production as wanted, Outside of the world of commercial pop music, there are many artists who will not use it at all. Two words: Willie Nelson Back to the OP. Melodyne only works well on voices if the wave forms are simple enough. Otherwise, it can sound horrible. I have the latest version of Melodyne Studio—that's the high priced version. Many senior citizen voices cannot cannot use it all. I also have PureDSP, ZTX and Zynaptique, the pro version, Autotune and a few others. The only correct answer I can give is that it depends on the source material what I will use and when.
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Mr. Halloran,
You said two words. Willie Nelson.
I have one word:
Amen.
Now I have a thought.
Who can touch him?
Two words.
No one.
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Hi Mike,
I have to contradict here. I also use Melodyne Studio quite a lot and must say that the possibilities are incredible. I have used it not only to get really bad vocals right, but also on guitars, to remove unwanted noises, to mock up vocals with some artificial choir and a lot of other purposes. It has become one of my most essential tools.
Yes, it takes a while to understand Melodyne and to unleash it's full potential, but it is definitely worth the effort. Especially with the Studio version, the possibilities to tweak all kind of polyphonic audio material is absolutely brilliant. Celemony also offers very structured and excellent video tutorials and textual manuals. You just have to take your time, to learn, to understand and to practise.
Only the midi conversion functionality of Melodyne could be a bit better.
I am also an old guy and it took me a while to learn. But understanding the concept behind the tool made things a lot easier. I never had any horrible results since.
Cheers
Roland
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Nothing that some practice won't fix.
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I also use Melodyne Studio quite a lot and must say that the possibilities are incredible. So, you don't do what I do yet you somehow know I must be wrong. I can send you some files. Melodyne can do quite a bit. It cannot work miracles. I wish that it could.
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Melodyne Studio is an incredibly deep program, but it can't do everything. Pros may use its many tools right down to syllable levels. But unless it's something really out of whack I'm probably going to just use the slider at about 85% instead of spending a couple of hours.
Hoarse, breathy vocals can have density added using clippers like Karzog's KClip to increase RMS energy and also using super heavy paralleled compression with something like a Fairchild plugin.
It's recommended to tune first, but there is no harm in experimenting.
And Willie proves that the most compelling thing is performance. If there is no feeling, nothing will make it sound great.
Help! I've fallen up and can't get down!
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I would rather hear a person singing an original and compelling composition that is slightly out of tune any day of the week rather than sit through another 12 bar blues progression with a four note melody on the subject of baby just done me mean and I got da down home blues in perfect pitch.
Yep, and as you've suggested, sometimes the "out of tune"ness is right for the song. My singing was once described as aggressively atonal by some one who actually liked the song they were commenting upon. The tendency, with pitch correction, to squeeze all of the human out of the vocal by making it "perfect", & I don't mean by getting into the robot artefact area, can kill a song stone dead. I know, I've done it more than once. Most pitch correction doesn't recognize "blue notes" for example. Where would pop'n'rock be without those?
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Guys, unfortunately, in Melodyne, you can't cut corners.
You think you can first select all notes, then use the Macro slider to instantly fix every thing? You can't.
You can macro fix the pitch drift. You can't macro fix the pitch.
Because when you macro slide notes to pitch center, you are centering the yellow blobs, not the red lines.
The blobs are just containers of average pitch, the lines are the actual pitch you need to align.
There are many times you need to cut/chop a blob to pieces, in order to align different portions of a line.
One song takes several hours to Mel. It ain't an easy job.
A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
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