> In BiaB, there are two methods of inserting yellow MIDI to a track. One way is to insert MIDI super track, then in the dialog box select a yellow MIDI, not a blue MIDI. The other way is the method of discussed in this thread, select custom MIDI style, then select a stem from that style.
There are two methods discussed for adding a Single MIDI track. One is “blue” (midi supertrack) and one is “yellow” (custom track from “old” midi style).
1. Midi supertracks have the advantage that the performance is based on input provided by a real musical artist. 2. The older MIDI a styles were based on algorithms simulating a real performance, but based on patterns and rules for adopting them to different chords.
If it was me, and I wanted to add a New Orleans pianist track, there wouldn’t be any thought - I’d go with #1 midi SuperTrack, and choose a Kevin McKendree New Orleans MIDI supertrack. But if you were choosing something specific, you might find that we don’t have a midi supertrack for that, and an “old school” track from a midi style works.
"2. The older MIDI a styles were based on algorithms simulating a real performance, but based on patterns and rules for adopting them to different chords."
There are some very usable lines there and it seems enormous amount of them are available, but they are only selectable within the context of style they belong to, or through the "Custom MIDI" picker (which is the culprit of original request of this thread)
Of course Super MIDI is "better", I am not questioning that. But... Having a pool, of the stems separated by instruments (style, feel, etc) derived from older MIDI styles will give users quite a bit of usable content. And as you said, it will adopt to different chords.
Dear Peter, although I understand the yellow MIDIs from the old styles (pre 2007 BiaB) are like expired milk that doesn't taste good to you, I sincerely ask you to leave them alone and not to remove them in the future BiaB updates.
As a professional virtual guitarist, I produce hundreds of commercial guitar solos each year.
One way was to use BiaB's new Playable RealTracks feature.
The other way, and also the main way, is to use the monophonic MIDIs from these old school yellow styles.
I don't care much about the performance quality, because I will have to edit then add my own articulations anyway, such as pitch bend, vibrato, slide, palm mute, whammy bar, etc.
But I do care about the quantity. Although the blue super MIDIs are better performance, the quantity is lower than the yellow ones.
Especially in my case, I can't use polyphonic MIDIs such as piano. I have to specifically search for monophonic MIDIs like guitar, violin, saxphone, horn, etc, in order to convert to a guitar solo later.
For yellow MIDIs, there are thousands of them. That gives me some options to choose from.
Peter, whatever you do, please never divorce these old yellow MIDIs.
They are like old pals to me. I'm emotionally attached.
A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
Don't forget you thousands of Yamaha keyboard styles you can use as they are just midi files and you can open a Biab MGU/SGU in JJazzLab and create midi style tracks that can be dragged export into Biab.
The first SGU is the main arrangement loaded with RealStyle.
The second SGU has the same chords, key, tempo, feel, but loaded with an old school yellow MIDI style.
The purpose of the second SGU, is that I can use the regular Style picker, to select a yellow MIDI style. Works much better than the "Select Custom MIDI Track from Style" dialog box, because the Style picker has filters.
Then I will audition the MIDI. If it sounds great, I will export the individual track to a .mid file.
Last, I will import the .mid to the main SGU, make some edit, assign a VST, and call it for the day.
This is probably the best workaround until a new feature called "Legacy MIDI Picker" is added in a future BiaB release.
A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
<< Currently, for every song, I will have two SGUs.
The first SGU is the main arrangement loaded with RealStyle.
The second SGU has the same chords, key, tempo, feel, but loaded with an old school yellow MIDI style.
The purpose of the second SGU, is that I can use the regular Style picker, to select a yellow MIDI style. Works much better than the "Select Custom MIDI Track from Style" dialog box, because the Style picker has filters. >>
Addressing your current workflow and not the Wish request, it's possible to do this in the original SGU file StylePicker without the necessity of having a second SGU file. It works using the Copy/Move command in the Track Actions Menu that's accessed directly from the StylePicker. I've attached screenshots to display where the menus are located.
> For yellow MIDIs, there are thousands of them. That gives me some options to choose from. Peter, whatever you do, please never divorce these old yellow MIDIs. They are like old pals to me. I'm emotionally attached.
Right, there are no plans to remove/downgrade those older yellow MIDI styles.
Since you mentioned “midi guitar solos”, a good source would be the old-school MIDI soloists, generated from soloist numbers 1-360 in the Soloist dialog. When we switched to RealTracks, we started the numbering at 361, so that’s why the lowest RealTracks you see is 361. But you should be able to generate lots of nice midi guitar solos using soloists 1-360. That’s accessed from the soloist button, and then you launch the soloist dialog.
Another source for midi “solos” would the Melodist. It generates Melodies, which might be a source for “simple” solos in some cases.
Peter, awesome idea! You are the Peter Pan and I am the lost boy. I once was lost, but now I'm found!
First, yellow MIDIs from both Soloist 1-360 and Melodist are already assorted as monophonic MIDIs, so I don't have to worry about getting a polyphonic solo.
Second, under the same chord progression, I can generate one Soloist MIDI, and one Melodist MIDI, then comp the two MIDIs together. In this case, I will have both the emotional long notes from Melodist, and shredded fast notes from Soloist 1-360, at my disposal.
Last, I become the Brent Mason of virtual guitar.
Let's be honest, this method of making custom guitar solo is WAY faster and much more controllable, than trying to partial regen again and again on a guitar Playable Realtrack.
And Peter, thank you for your promise not killing the yellow MIDIs. This is a good news for all young BiaB users like me out there.
As a producer of the young generation, I do tons and tons of EDM songs to pursue fame and money. With the new KV331 integration in BiaB 2023, I can now easily and quickly generate a chord track and route to a SynthMaster Arpeggiator, and then generate a bunch of yellow MIDI tracks and route to various SynthMaster pads, and finally use volume node automation to turn the pads on and off and comp a full song.
People hate yellow MIDIs because they are too computerized, not as humanized as blue MIDIs.
This is no longer the case in the world of synthesizers and EDM productions.
A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
I believe original request got a bit buried, but since there is no support from users or from Peter himself, I will leave the topic alone. It is unfortunate that people don't see value in these stems from older MIDI styles. I tried.
I believe original request got a bit buried, but since there is no support from users or from Peter himself, I will leave the topic alone. It is unfortunate that people don't see value in these stems from older MIDI styles. I tried.
I see the value. I was just waiting to see what Peter would say.
+1
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I though I could make a separate database picker for it. The first issue is the Style Picker in the Custom Midi Style it does not have the 4 bar preview like in the normal Style Picker. The next issue if you go into the normal Style Picker and try a midi style track by soloing it and click 4 bar preview it will work good and give a preview but when you "Cancel" out of it it still leaves the midi style loaded rather than going back to original style.
So I made this up, give it a try and see if it works okay for what you need. It's just brought up by right click a track > Custom MIDI Styles for Tracks/s, so whatever instrument you check will play preview with your chords and you can set it to any track, it will also preview multiple checked tracks along with your existing tracks. It's a free floating non jail window so you can adjust volumes, mute or solo tracks in the Mixer while it's open. It uses existing code copy and pasted into new picker. You maybe able to make an option to just generate for selected bars in the chord sheet. It should preview with whatever Plugin or default synth is on that track.
Auditioning individual instruments in MIDI style picker will not solve this. As it implies browsing of thousands of styles that are not sortable by specific instrument line they contain (or don't contain).
But if those tracks extracted from these styles and converted to normal midi tracks, similar to Super Midi (midi loops if you want to call them that). List becomes searchable by type. So if you are looking for "flute" you will get only "flutes", search for "piano" get results for only pianos, etc.
You could add another criteria "Search Instrument" that will show all styles with "Flute" in them. If I do a search now for instruments it seems to show styles with those and you can see the style of playing by the style name, it should not be too hard to go through and preview them without going in n out of dialogs by using the one dialog to do it all.
If PG are willing to convert them all it would be good. This is where MIDI UserTracks would come in handy, I had a plugin all worked out to do that by reading the BB chords and creating a midi UserTrack.
You could have it so if it finds that instrument in a style it will check it ready to preview in the selected track, so you could preview it by double click the style or with the preview button. You could have an Auto Play check box so when you move the cursor keys up/down it will preview without having to double click or hit preview button each time.
"MIDI UserTracks" very true. Actually I am very surprised "audio" user tracks came before MIDI ones.
I came to BIAB from the world of hardware and software sequencers based on keyboard styles. Of course I used all kind of other things, but these gave me a "skeleton" for the tune. (Midi sequences that would follow chords). 95% of arrangers would allow to remix the MIDI stems from various styles and their parts, such as intros, chorus, break, ending to create "your own" style. Similar as what we have with RD/RT and Super Midis. But while Super Midi tracks are great, there is only so much of them...
Really, it confuses me, why not to expand the catalog by deriving these MIDI stems from older styles and sell them all sorted and cleaned up in packs? Loops were met with enthusiasm.... Besides, they (MIDI stems) are already there, so no musician has to be hired to do this stuff. It is only technical and mainly sorting, keeping only better ones...
Unfortunately BIAB is locked on it's in-house MIDI based styles and bringing something from style made for arranger is possible, but requires a lot of trickery.
--- Musocity, save your energy. The only true way to do this is what I mentioned. To have these stems act in similar manner as Super Midis. Let them be called MIDI Style tracks (without the Super part)
I'd like to offer a different perspective on this discussion. It seems this suggestion is offered from the perspective of those who have come to the program after the advent of RealTracks. I have always valued the original midi styles and thought that RealTracks limited the programs capabilities when compared to midi. As good as the RealTracks sound, you are limited to the instruments offered by BIAB. On the other hand, having grown up with midi and the original BIAB, I have never limited the styles to the description and instruments suggested by BIAB. The beauty of midi is that it is only data, and just because a BIAB midi part is labeled as bass, doesn't mean it is limited to being used as a bass. It works just as well as a bell, chime, pizzicato strings, alien space laser, etc. Between hardware and software, I have literally tens of thousands of midi patches which are useless with RealTracks but work beautifully with the midi styles. However, because of the need to provide a common denominator for showcasing the styles, BIAB is limited to using General Midi patches. Once you break from the GM limitations, these styles lend themselves to the modern sound so often described as lacking in BIAB. Perhaps now that BIAB includes Synthmaster some of these styles can be redone using more interesting sounds.
While I support the original wishlist proposal, I believe it is only useful if you use the instrument as it was original labeled by BIAB. But if you understand that the midi is only data and not instruments, then curating by instrument is of limited value.
As far as user tracks for midi, doesn't BIAB already provide for this with the original sylemaker ? Notes Norton has been doing this and selling his styles since the earliest days of BIAB midi. There used to be a company called “Twiddly Bits” that sold midi patterns (loops) and I use to use them in the BIAB stylemaker. BIAB recently introduced appegiators into styles with the inclusion of Synthmaster. Decades ago I created a BIAB arpeggiator style using Twiddly Bits arpeggiator patterns in the stylemaker. In addition, the stylemaker is capable of interesting musical output allowing for pattern weighting, macros, and masking based on musical context. All of this became obscured and ignored with the advent of RealTracks.
Here is an example using parts of various BIAB midi styles and the arpeggiator created using the Twiddly Bits midi loops in the BIAB stylemaker:
Your request is exactly the same as mine. "It is only useful if you use the instrument as it was original labeled by BIAB" Of course request includes sorting these stems for the instruments they were originally intended. Obviously you would be able to re-voice MIDI stem after it is placed on a track. There is nothing limiting about that.
My idea, to start small and 300-400 stems that were designed for Pianos. If everything works out and there is good reception, more stems could be derived.
"However, because of the need to provide a common denominator for showcasing the styles, BIAB is limited to using General Midi patches" That doesn't limit anything. It depends on your Default Synth and the way you have it mapped.
"Original sylemaker" is horrible. It hanged my computer a couple of times and I stopped even trying it. It is not 21st century tool...
Musocity, Most of these Giglads, JJAzzlabs and 3-4 others are very amateurish (I have done extensive homework on the subject). There are only two that I know are done more or less right: vArranger and Yamaha Mobile sequencer (iOS only) but even they have not been updated in years. There is a new kid on the block, who is pushing pretty aggressively: Sofeh Sunrise. Very good start. The problem is none of these are in form of VST's. Syncing is possible by virtual midi and tying MIDI clock to be driven BIAB->Arranger. The issue is, it's not very stable and you get all kinds of anomalies.
Essentially what I proposed is an "updated" MIDI style maker / assembler from older styles. Non-modal, with direct preview from the chord sheet.
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