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Songwriting
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Is it possible that a person is able to ONLY write music and not lyrics? I have been stuck on a song for longer than I can admit to. I have the music essentially done, Guitar, Piano, drums, bass and the song structure completed, Intro, verse, verse, Bridge, Chorus, Verse, Instrumental Break, verse, ending. I even created a melody (with help). But dispite all the work, no lyrics. I don't consider this to be a writers block since best I can recall I have only written lyrics once in my life. But at this time I feel the need to get this done. I want to do it myself so I am not looking for a colaboration (well, at least at this time). Any words of wisdom on how I actually make this happen! Or is this just a stupid question.  Dan
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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See ChatGPT posts for those of use having difficulty with lyric writing.....
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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Thanks Steve for the push in a direction. I just created a catchy phrase as a song title and asked ChatGPT for lyrics. ...They are surprizingly good!  But will they "fit my song"? My new lyrics are clever and witty with a bit of humor. But my music is a minor chord progression which is sad and dark at 90 bpm. Stay tuned.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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.................... Or is this just a stupid question. Dan No. I can come up with melodies and chord most of the time. But I can rarely come up with lyrics.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Songwriting
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I can come up with melodies and chord most of the time. But I can rarely come up with lyrics. You and me both my friend.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Sounds a lot like me.  Writing lyrics first is much easier. The other way around, my process is ploddingly painful. I listen to the song and try to get an impression of the mood and feeling. Who could be expressing this? What might their story be? I'll put up dummy lyrics that match the melody, no matter how incoherent they are. It lets me see the meter, and gives me something to rewrite. Generally, the verse explains and justifies the chorus. So if you work on the chorus first, you then write a narrative that gets you to that conclusion. If you start with a verse, then you try to figure out a chorus that acts as a logical conclusion of the verse. Typically, I'll accidentally end up writing all my ideas into the first verse, so I'll have to split it into parts so there's something to say on the second and third verse. Then it's just a matter of rewriting, keeping the good stuff and rewriting the less good parts. Using something like Rhymezone to come up with rhymes and words is really helpful, because my first ideas are just regurgitated cliches. Try to make each of the verses say something new, so there's forward momentum in the song. Don't be afraid to shuffle ideas around. The first verse should try to hook the listener in with a provocative line. It's a good place to set up the scene and attitude. Think of it like an establishing shot of a movie. The second verse could talk about how you've arrived, and what's preventing you from moving from that point. Or add more detail to what you started - give information that changes how the listener might have originally been thinking. My biggest mistake is forgetting that a song - unlike a story - doesn't have to resolve. Simply stating a problem or feeling is enough. There's no need to over-explain something. Now I need to finish that unfinished song of mine that's been sitting on the hard drive...
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Writing lyrics first is much easier. Good advice David, Looks like I fell into this first trap. But my initial thoughts are I can readily adjust the music to fit these new lyrics.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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My new lyrics are clever and witty with a bit of humor. But my music is a minor chord progression which is sad and dark at 90 bpm. Stay tuned. The key to get the lyrics you want is to give the AI as much detail as possible up front. Tell it sad, dark, 90 bpm and it should get closer. I even tell it how many lines/syllables per line I want.
Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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I wrote the music to a song thirty years ago. I finally finished the lyrics last year.
You can force things, get ideas from other people, use AI, steal what every you think you can get away with from other songs.
None of that will likely work very well. Take the pressure off and just let it happen. It will take as long as it takes. Just my experence.
Many of the best songs were written by teams of people. Asking for help is what professionals do.
Something Henley said about their songwriting.
"They're the same themes that run through all of our work: loss of innocence, the cost of naiveté, the perils of fame, of excess; exploration of the dark underbelly of the American dream, idealism realized and idealism thwarted, illusion versus reality, the difficulties of balancing loving relationships and work, trying to square the conflicting relationship between business and art; the corruption in politics, the fading away of the Sixties dream of "peace, love and understanding."
Best of luck Dan.
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 04/13/23 06:13 PM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Yep.... While you might not want to collaborate with someone, look into the app that Joanne is developing.
It started out pretty plain vanilla but she continues to work on it adding new features. She's working on a version where you can define the number of syllables in the lines to fit the rhythmic pattern you're hearing. It's currently capable of rewriting the previous draft.
For me...it's a great way to get an idea started that I will then edit and embellish as I see fit. I have yet to get something completed that started with the AI seed. Most of what it generates, to me, is not ready for prime time because it tends to get stuck in a rut and it rehashes the same idea over and over rather than being creative like the human mind is capable of.
Anyway.... Just a bunch of random thoughts on what might help.... or not
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Is it possible that a person is able to ONLY write music and not lyrics? Writing lyrics first is much easier. Hehehe, and here comes the oddball: I can do neither lyrics nor melody aloneLyrics first: forget it. Kills me to find a suitable chord progression, let alone a melody. Melody first: not a problem per se, but with every extra word I write, I change the melody because ... hmmm, dunno. It feels wrong. A friend suggested it's some kind of synesthesia, but I don't know. And there's no point in writing a melody if you change it later with each word, so I write both at the same time. Maybe Dan can try a similar approach?
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Really appreciate the comments folks. I feel like this is the time for be to dive in headfirst and knowing that others have tested the waters ahead of me makes me feel a bit more confident.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Making a "good" song alone is a huge deal. The more instrumentation, the more complex the job becomes.
You may or may not agree with the following statement.
"A song is a composition made up of lyrics and music, with the intent of the lyrics being sung, for the purpose of producing a proportionate feeling or emotion in relation to a particular matter."
BMI is a good source of ideas.
A quoit
"In many instances, multiple writers contribute to the topline, with one or more of them contributing the lyrics and others crafting the vocal melody. In some cases, one writer might compose the verse melody while another writes the chorus melody. Similarly, a backing track might be created by more than one writer. For example, one writer might create the beats, while others compose the chord changes and instrumental sounds with the piano and guitar."
It is certainly possible to write lyrics to pre-existing music. It is also possible to write music to pre-existing lyrics. Bernie Turpin writes lyrics for Elton John, and Elton devises the music with little interaction with Bernie.
Because we have software, BIAB, and many others, which can provide the different elements needed to construct a song, it is theoretically possible to create a "good Song" alone. Still, other than some accidental combination, understanding of and a skill level with the different elements is needed.
Even if someone has all the needed skills, the limitations of the software confine the song to those limits and processes.
Popular styles often would include drums, bass, keyboards, guitar, and vocals to include the lyrics.
If, for example, you are a "skilled" Drummer, bass player, keyboard player, lyricist, top-line writer, arranger, producer, guitar player, mixing engineer, mastering engineer, and a dozen or more other skills, it should be simple to write "good songs" alone...lol
Some good songs do get written by only one person, but in today's world, teams of people are the most common way complex things get done.
I write lyrics that, in my own opinion, are sometimes good, sometimes bad, and mainly irreverent to anyone else but me. As a result, I don't stress too much over the quality or what anyone else thinks about them.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Is it possible that a person is able to ONLY write music and not lyrics?
Dan Very possible. Ever hear of the songwriting team of Bernie Taupin and Elton John? One provides the lyrics and the other the music.
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You could try the "David Bowie method". In a nutshell, take snippets from books, papers, poems, or anything really. Cut them up into chunks and rearrange. Fill in some blanks if needed. As an obscure source of inspiration (works for any creative work, plus more I would thing), I'm going to also mention Oblique Strategies developed by Brian Eno. https://www.oblique-strategies.com/(Refresh the page for a new "strategy") PS. Lyrics do not come naturally for me either and this is true for a lot of composers throughout the history. As a result, there's been many composer/lyricist duos formed.
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....................
You may or may not agree with the following statement.
"A song is a composition made up of lyrics and music, with the intent of the lyrics being sung, for the purpose of producing a proportionate feeling or emotion in relation to a particular matter."
..........................
Billy
I respectfully do not agree with that statement because it ignores all of the instrumentals that have ever been recorded, including classical music. I would say "A song is a composition made up of a melody and supporting music, with the intent of the melody, whether it be a vocal or and an instrumental, for the purpose of producing a proportionate feeling or emotion in relation to a particular matter." This may be splitting hairs but your statement indicates that a song must have a vocal. At least in my mind it did
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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@Billy That is just the textbook definition of the word. If the "song" doesn't have lyrics, the piece of music is classified as something else. I.e. there are no pieces of classical music that are defined as a song that does not have lyrics. Actually, I can't think of any that are "songs". The closest to a classical "song" would probably be an aria. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/song@Planobilly A bit further down the same Wikipedia article: Through semantic widening, a broader sense of the word "song" may refer to instrumentals, such as the 20th century Songs Without Words pieces for solo piano.
Last edited by Chicago; 04/14/23 10:19 AM.
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Well, Mario, I also agree with you. I could have provided more clarity and said this statement was directed toward the lyrical context of popular vocal music.
The general idea also applies to instrumental music.
It does not necessarily apply to all songs/music, or at least to the same degree. Not all music compositions have a melody or lyrics, and even if they have some sort of melody, they can be very subservient to the rhythmic function of the music.
One issue is that not all of us consider many words to mean the same thing.
The word "song," for example.
Merriam Websters
song
noun
1
: the act or art of singing
2
: poetical composition
3
a
: a short musical composition of words and music
b
: a collection of such compositions
4
: a distinctive or characteristic sound or series of sounds (as of a bird, insect, or whale)
5
a
: a melody for a lyric poem or ballad
b
: a poem easily set to music
6
a
: a habitual or characteristic manner
b
: a violent, abusive, or noisy reaction
put up quite a song
7
: a small amount
sold for a song
There exist relatively precise terms to express musical ideas. They are not very often used when discussing popular music in general conversations on most forums. That is a good thing from my perspective because I don't know what every one of the terms means.
Precision in written communications on forums rarely exists.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Well I stand corrected. My definition of the word song isn't on your list, however your list is the "official" definition. I did a search and all of my searches yielded the identical results. My definition is that a song contains three main ingredients, a melody, a chord progression, and a rhythm. But what do I know as I was taught that many many years ago  Have a good day.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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To come up with lyrics to an already finished piece of music, I'd probably start by taking note of how I feel as I listen. Perhaps that would lead to writing down those feelings or impressions and that in turn might lead to more specific ideas and eventually to the point of the song or the message I want to convey. Brainstorming, I guess.
Dark and gloomy -> trouble -> what kind of trouble -> relationship, money, car trouble....
If you think about it, you probably already have some ideas for what the song 'could' be about. Write them down. See if any of them appeal to you. Ask yourself why? Write down the answers.
Is there a title? If so, why did you choose it?
Good luck:)
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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